Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

@LittleBearPad

However I do also know of previous sahms who have returned following a relationship breakdown to work, with no trouble, as they were willing to do anything

Not great though is it. Their former DH/DP didn’t have to scrabble round for a job.

How do you know that? Too much assuming going on.

The person I'm thinking of in particular didn't really have a career as such before...but worked. Then got jobs easily despite the gap.

I'm sure for some women who want to return to a specific career the gap may have caused issues. For some it will be fine.

But that's also assuming they want to go back to the same field

aren’t you the poster who posted about needing a job after 20 years as a SAHM and kept snipping at posters...? It’s probably for the best that you keep away from AIBU

No, I responded to those who giving me shit. Being a long term SAHM doesn't mean you have to take nonsense from randoms on the Internet.

And don't tag me again so I have to come back to AIBU It's the feminist board and the Archers thread for me from now on! Only place you get intelligent discussion on MN these days

Who were giving me shit (wasn't trying to talk street!)

God for an edit button ...

@Sunflowers095
The issue is that even if equal support was available, most men still wouldn't want to stay at home
No, that isn't the issue. Women and men don't have to be the same to be equal. Women aren't wrong for wanting something different than men. Your whole post drips with misogyny.

Children are a biological urge for many (we are animals afterall) hence why the vast majority of people them. Again there is nothing wrong with this, we as a species are preprogrammed to want to procreate. These children need to be cared for and some people will instinctively feel that they are the best people to do this. I don't agree with you at all that it's easy to 'look after' a child, to nuture them, teach them, nourish them and support them through their most critical years of development. To suggest that it is not only denigrates SAHPs, but also parents in general and those that work in the early years sector.

Navigating being a provider throughout the child's life is much harder, therefore it holds more value
Says who? You? You do realise that a 'provider' can do all kinds of jobs requiring varying levels of difficulty and effort? Again it's pure and simple misogyny to assume all people that WOH have it harder and therefore what they do holds more value.

Most working parents could look after their kids full time if needed, but how many SAHP could step up to being the sole provider?
What are you talking about? Most WOHPs are not 'sole providers' to begin with and many would not be able to step up and be the only income earner in the household as they simply don't earn enough. The vast majority of SAHPs could work FT in the same way that the vast majority of WOHPs could SAH.

You do realise we are not talking about separate species here? SAHPs aren't intrinsically more stupid or lazier than their WOH counterparts. It's just people that have made a different choice at a point in their life, that's all. Chances are that lots of SAHPs will go on to become WOHPs once their children are older and some may well go on to become the the main breadwinners.

@StopCryingYourHeartOut

Jealousy.

Pure and simple. It's isn't anymore complicated than that.

I don't buy that anybody on MN has 'concern' over a random stranger from the Internets financial situation. That's just nonsense.
Plain old fashioned jealousy dressed up as 'concern.'

I'm not sure it's jealousy..plenty work when they don't 'have to' financially, they want to...I will be in that situation in a few months.

I wonder if it's just repeating lines they've read on MN like it's gospel? It's certainly true some women are in a vulnerable position, but not all..it's literally on every sahm thread even if it's not appropriate to what the woman's said.

I totally agree with this comment though

I don't buy that anybody on MN has 'concern' over a random stranger from the Internets financial situation. That's just nonsense.

I wonder if your perspective will change on the nature of MN posts OP when you do return to work? I’m not being snarky. We all read threads through our own experience, point of view.

I do assure you for all the shit chucked at SAHMs the same is chucked at WOHMs. We are basically fucked.

@LittleBearPad

I wonder if your perspective will change on the nature of MN posts OP when you do return to work? I’m not being snarky. We all read threads through our own experience, point of view.

I do assure you for all the shit chucked at SAHMs the same is chucked at WOHMs. We are basically fucked.

After starting this thread I wondered that too. I do think this site can be particularly nasty to SAHMs...but I suppose I will be more aware of the horrible comments directed at wohms too.Time will tell!

I'm sure some are jealous of others having the choice- not everyone does. Those will be the snipey posters.

I think some posters do genuinely want other women to think of the potential issues in giving up work so they can make an informed decision. I know I do - it's up to the individual to name their own risk assessment - we're all different and have different circumstances.

I don't buy that anybody on MN has 'concern' over a random stranger from the Internets financial situation. That's just nonsense.

Yet how many 'handhold' threads have hundreds of random people offering a complete stranger support?

People who have had a shit time often dont want other people to suffer in the same way.

I don't understand what a SAHM is meant to be in reality - and when are you not one? - when you are employed?
So is it another phrase for an unemployed woman?
Is a retired mum a SAHM?
Is a SAHM the same as a 'Homemaker' in the USA?

💣

I've seen every kind of parent get the shit kicked out of them on mumsnet. You can't win on here op. If Mother Teresa herself appeared to us I've no doubt she would be sent away screaming with her self esteem bringing up the rear.

[quote Bumpitybumper]@Sunflowers095
The issue is that even if equal support was available, most men still wouldn't want to stay at home
No, that isn't the issue. Women and men don't have to be the same to be equal. Women aren't wrong for wanting something different than men. Your whole post drips with misogyny.

Children are a biological urge for many (we are animals afterall) hence why the vast majority of people them. Again there is nothing wrong with this, we as a species are preprogrammed to want to procreate. These children need to be cared for and some people will instinctively feel that they are the best people to do this. I don't agree with you at all that it's easy to 'look after' a child, to nuture them, teach them, nourish them and support them through their most critical years of development. To suggest that it is not only denigrates SAHPs, but also parents in general and those that work in the early years sector.

Navigating being a provider throughout the child's life is much harder, therefore it holds more value
Says who? You? You do realise that a 'provider' can do all kinds of jobs requiring varying levels of difficulty and effort? Again it's pure and simple misogyny to assume all people that WOH have it harder and therefore what they do holds more value.

Most working parents could look after their kids full time if needed, but how many SAHP could step up to being the sole provider?
What are you talking about? Most WOHPs are not 'sole providers' to begin with and many would not be able to step up and be the only income earner in the household as they simply don't earn enough. The vast majority of SAHPs could work FT in the same way that the vast majority of WOHPs could SAH.

You do realise we are not talking about separate species here? SAHPs aren't intrinsically more stupid or lazier than their WOH counterparts. It's just people that have made a different choice at a point in their life, that's all. Chances are that lots of SAHPs will go on to become WOHPs once their children are older and some may well go on to become the the main breadwinners.[/quote]
I don't think my viewpoint is misogynistic, I think you just feel offended.

Why should society value the fact that you decide to take time to look after your own children that you decided to bring into this world? To me that's no different to people taking time to travel, pick up gardening or start a business. It's a lifestyle choice you made to suit your own wants and that's fine but not sure why it should be valued?

Yes, says me because I've worked in childcare and also now work in a different career. So I feel like I have a comparison between the two.

You really think a SAHP who has been out of work for years could easily pick up a well paid job tomorrow if their spouse lost their job? Probably not. But the spouse who lost their job could most likely overnight be in charge of the childcare. Do you really disagree with that?

I think the stick SAHMs get is down to jealousy. I've seen posters twisted in knots desperately trying to find flaws in a SAHMs life. You are leaving yourself vulnerable, you don't have a future, what about your pension, what example are you setting.... This was to someone who had already said she had inherited huge sums of money and need never work again, who had plans and back up plans and was just happy with her life and interests. People find it hard to accept when someone gets something for nothing or if someone's life appears easier than theirs.

I would always tell a friend who was planning DC to make sure they had their own money. It has sweet FA to do with jealousy - I don't even have or want any DC - and everything to do with the number of women I have seen get screwed over.

It always seems to be those in the 'My DH would never do that' camp who find out that their DH did do 'that', several times. My own DM was a prime example, her first husband (not my Dad) left her up shit creek without a paddle and she always told me never to rely on a man for money.

It's not the norm here. Most likely an element of jealousy or misconception especially for SAHMs with only school age DC. Perhaps normal outside London.

IRL, from the wealthiest to poorest... I dont know a single SAHM in my immediate circle. There are some at my kids school, but a minority, and they didnt go to university. Everyone I know took up to a year's maternity leave each time, some return part time, some changed paths. Maybe it's possible in teaching but it's pretty brutal in corporate professions, you cant just waltz back in and pick up where you left off after 5+ years. Funnily I know 2 SAHDs, DHs of my friends who are banker and hospital doctor. Neither dad is happy though. Both tried to study various qualifications with my friends' support but it's been years and they're still stuck at home.

I think you see/hear what you want to. I dont particularly enjoy my job and constantly daydream about being a SAHM, less exhausted and reading voraciously during school hours. But for various reasons I feel i need to plough on until my kids fly the nest. I personally could not take the (self imposed mental) pressure of being sole earner and while DH doesnt mind I feel I can't do it to him too.

As long it works for you, why do you care?

I tend to agree that the very nasty comments probably do come from a place of jealousy. On the part of SAHMs too. Those kind of comments that paint WOHMs as inferior parents, who love their children less, reek of it.

It’s probably from people who have no real sense of personal identity in their own right (‘mother’ just defines you relative to someone else) or those who don’t really feel comfortable not earning any money themselves. Others who feel that society doesn’t value them (they’re right, it doesn’t). And then I guess there are those who regret becoming a SAHM but are now trapped.

I’m baffled at the inability of some people to imagine that discussing the potential (and real) risks of being a SAHM, comes from a place of jealousy, though! There’s thread after thread on here from SAHMs up shit creek, to provide cautionary evidence in support of such discussion.

And other people have seen friends and family run into major difficulties when their partner leaves or loses their job and want to help prevent it happening to others. The proportion of independently wealthy SAHMs or those who ‘manage their DH’s diverse investment portfolios’ 🤣 (as described by Paloma), are vanishingly small.

Also, did it not occur to some of the hard-of-thinking, that some mothers don’t ‘need’ but want to work? That they love their jobs or that being at home all the time isn’t for them?

I've had it in real life situations.

Being asked by the newly (self) appointed chair of the PTA if I was a SAHM, as she was dividing all the tasks between people and decided to give me the motherload (I left not long after)

One of my very good friends on maternity leave saying "I just don't know how you do this full time, it's so BORING"

Lots of comments about how it would do people's head in, etc.

I don't think us Mums win whatever choice we make, but tI can certainly become a very divisive topic.

If you do not like how a thread is going, post on the thread itself.

Starting yet another thread moaning about how nasty MNers are is going to go down like a cup of cold sick.

I think that making choices about what you do in life is best made on the basis of as much info as you can.

And reminders about the need for an income, whether in the short or long term, is part of that picture. It's as wrong to airbrush that out as it is to insist it shouid rarely be mentioned. It's even worse to assume that people only mention it to be nasty/divisive.

@Drunkenmonkey

I think the stick SAHMs get is down to jealousy. I've seen posters twisted in knots desperately trying to find flaws in a SAHMs life. You are leaving yourself vulnerable, you don't have a future, what about your pension, what example are you setting.... This was to someone who had already said she had inherited huge sums of money and need never work again, who had plans and back up plans and was just happy with her life and interests. People find it hard to accept when someone gets something for nothing or if someone's life appears easier than theirs.

I think this example is a bit of an outlier, most people do not have a private unearned income sufficient to maintain themselves indefinitely.

And even with this example, it should have been taken up on the thread itself. Talking now about a thread which only a handful will recall and everyone else think is unreal (because they haven't seen it themselves and it's describing such an extreme) isn't really doing anything other than putting MNetters against each other and fostering division.

Not between WOHP and SAHP but between 'nicer than thou' posters and the rest.

After all, do remember on WOHP/SAHP, most of us have been both at some point, so can say what's good/important/shit about either.

@FloconDeNeige

**Also, did it not occur to some of the hard-of-thinking, that some mothers don’t ‘need’ but want to work? That they love their jobs or that being at home all the time isn’t for them?

This is exactly what I'm taking about. 'Hard of thinking'...if you are a sahm that doesn't mean you are thick! It's also pretty obvious people don't always 'need' to work but want to.

It's these often subtle comments...it's not always the overtly horrible comments that are what I'm taking about

@StoneofDestiny

I don't understand what a SAHM is meant to be in reality - and when are you not one? - when you are employed? So is it another phrase for an unemployed woman? Is a retired mum a SAHM? Is a SAHM the same as a 'Homemaker' in the USA?

I would say it prefers to a woman who isn't working nor seeking work as she's doing the childcare herself. A retired mum isn't a sahm as her children are probably adults who don't need looking after. I would say the terms change when your children are grown and you don't work and then you are a homemaker/housewife. Technically correctly you are unemployed woman...but that would imply you aren't doing anything.

*refers not prefers

You’re making a leap there... I didn’t say that SAHMs are ‘hard-of-thinking’; you’ve made that link yourself.

I was referring to those whose seem incapable of imagining that some mothers may not wish to SAH and are thus jealous of those who do. And those who can’t imagine that anyone urging caution at SAH can’t be anything other than jealous.

@ChrissyPlummer

There is another post running where the OP has been a SAHM for close to 20 years and is being quite rude to posters who are telling her the job market is tough ATM.

Possibly, it’s because I’ve seen things on threads like ‘paying bills, life admin’ when people ask what SAHM of school-age children do. One where the poster spoke about car insurance. I haven’t “paid a bill” manually for years, I renew my car insurance annually, it takes ten minutes. Or “organising GP/hospital appointments”, unless there’s a chronic/long-term condition, how often does a family of four go to the hospital?

A few years ago I was unemployed and was going out of my mind with boredom. I guess people wonder how they’d fill their days. I’d hate to spend all of my time with a baby/toddler so wouldn’t do it!

👏 👏 Add 'buying birthday presents' to that 😂

Takes 5 mins to go on selfridges website and get anything from there. Delivered to family within two days. Gift package wrapped.