Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

[quote Sweak]@notanothertakeaway I agree. I'm always disappointed when I see sahms critique wohms too. Although I have to say I think there is more critique of sahm..although that could just be about numbers as most women work out the home now[/quote]
And I would say that there are more digs about ‘why pay someone else to raise your own children’ - not because there are more but because I recognise my own confirmation bias.

@shrewsigh

You are lucky that you are trained in a sector where there is a shortage - teaching. Five years out of a job for a lot of people would make it extremely difficult/ nigh on impossible to get back to work in that field.

5 years nigh on impossible to get back? Really? I would be interested if other sahp who have returned had this experience.

And fyi teaching is in demand yes, but actually this year there are less jobs as people aren't moving on. Plenty of nqts are struggling to secure jobs.

I was a SAHM for 2 years after my second DS was born. It was HARD especially with two such young ones. I would always defend the position of SAHMs because for women given we do actually give birth to the children it needs to be a choice. I am now working part time and pregnant with number 3 but will carry on working this time - again my choice.
I do like the idea that I’m showing my sons that my husband and I have an equal partnership. Really though Until the cost of childcare is much lower I think staying at home will always be a reasonable alternative to juggling work and childcare, especially when they are very young.

MN hates everyone and everything.

However you might have more of a point if there wasn't at least one thread of a desperate woman ( broke, no job ,no income,no support, no property, no rights etc) either being left with nothing or trapped in a very abusive (or involving addiction,gambling,cheating etc)relationship for every patronising/infantilising/ criticising /whatever post.

The reasons for those posts is that while it might not happen to you, it still happens way too often. It's not judgement, it's a warning.

I’ve not seen many posts like this. I’ve been a stay at home mum since 2005! At some point I assume I’ll have to change that title to house wife. I don’t see how it’s anyone else’s business 🤷🏼‍♀️

I guess this is in response to the thread where the lady has been a sahm for 18 years. That is a completely different kettle of fish to a 4 year career break. A lot of the advice was pointing out the need to be realistic but also asking what volunteering experience she had. With the best will in the world, someone in that position isn’t going to be the most attractive prospect unless they’d been doing a lot of non-work stuff.

Personally I think there are a lot of benefits of having a sahp but those making out they are too busy doing the household admin to get a job aren’t doing themselves any favours really.

@Sweak @shrewsigh

In my field, I think you would struggle to return at the same level after 5 years. For some roles, I'm sure it's fine

OP, you say that being a SAHM hasn't made you financially vulnerable because you have easily found a job after a few years out of the workplace.

However, surely those four or five years away will have had some impact on your career?

Say that in the future you want to become a headteacher. The average age to become a headteacher is mid-forties (I just found this from a quick google). So the years as a SAHM mean that, for you, it is more likely to be 50ish. Then there may be an indirect effect on top of that - after having the time out you may be seen as less of an ambitious bright young thing on the pathway towards being a headteacher, and less likely to be thought of as an SLT promotion prospect. Or perhaps a touch of ageism at the interview could mean that you lose out to another candidate who is seen as younger and more dynamic than you. This is all hypothetical of course, but you can see that it could happen.

So you may be limiting your future earning potential, even if there is no obvious short term damage.

If you and your DH were to split up in future (which hopefully won't happen, but realistically we all know that it is a possibility), you would be at a financial disadvantage compared to someone who hadn't had those years out. Meanwhile your DH has not had a career break and has carried on being promoted while you were stalled.

This is the kind of financial impact that may not be obvious at first glance.

Of course, maybe you have no desire to become a head. But who knows how you'll feel in the future? Better to keep the door open just in case.

OP to answer your question - why do so many women post on here with stories of having no financial independence? There’s your answer.

Wouldn't it be nice if women can support other women's choices.

Nothing to do with being a SAHM or not, but I don't have to support anything you do just because we are both women. This "sisterhood" stuff is only ever trotted out as a stick to beat women with.

Thank god there's so much sense on this post! Honestly I think sometimes people read a lot into things on mn because theyve already got something in their head. I honestly haven't seen many WM attack sahm or sahm attack WM. The only thread that ever got me was a lady saying she hated sahms saying thank goodness it's Friday. I remember feeling a bit worthless after reading the thread.

I wish I could be a STAHM but we don’t have the income.
I became a sahm because we couldn't afford childcare anymore! Living on one wage is really hard and we were bottom of the barrel poor for a few years (almost lost home, arrears in everything, gave up a lot) I hope something nice happens in your job for you soon

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true!

Would it have been that easy in the middle of a breakup, with no income,housing situation precarious, no childcare or the money to fund it etc?

It always strikes me as strange that, as a foster carer, I am expected to be at home full time with our fosterlings and I am told I am a 'professional' but to do this role I am more or less reliant on DP's wage to pay the bills. I work, yet in the eyes of many, I don't work. My income from fostering is a pittance and if (when) DP is no longer here I have left myself in a very dodgy position finances wise.

@Orangebug

OP, you say that being a SAHM hasn't made you financially vulnerable because you have easily found a job after a few years out of the workplace.

However, surely those four or five years away will have had some impact on your career?

Say that in the future you want to become a headteacher. The average age to become a headteacher is mid-forties (I just found this from a quick google). So the years as a SAHM mean that, for you, it is more likely to be 50ish. Then there may be an indirect effect on top of that - after having the time out you may be seen as less of an ambitious bright young thing on the pathway towards being a headteacher, and less likely to be thought of as an SLT promotion prospect. Or perhaps a touch of ageism at the interview could mean that you lose out to another candidate who is seen as younger and more dynamic than you. This is all hypothetical of course, but you can see that it could happen.

So you may be limiting your future earning potential, even if there is no obvious short term damage.

If you and your DH were to split up in future (which hopefully won't happen, but realistically we all know that it is a possibility), you would be at a financial disadvantage compared to someone who hadn't had those years out. Meanwhile your DH has not had a career break and has carried on being promoted while you were stalled.

This is the kind of financial impact that may not be obvious at first glance.

Of course, maybe you have no desire to become a head. But who knows how you'll feel in the future? Better to keep the door open just in case.

@Orangebug I agree with you. I'm not saying it's not impacted my career prospect for promotion etc, I'm saying for me I'm still very employable. Slightly different. I agree on the pension too.

I have no desire to be in management...I've had additional responsibility before and don't want the stress again. I don't agree it is 'better to keep the door open just in case.' It was a choice I made to stay at home with the kids for these years and I went in with my eyes wide open to the long term implications. My risk Vs benefit analysis for my own family and circumstances led to be a sahm.

I am a working mum and I agree with you OP!

I don’t think MN seems very pro SAHM and all I ever read is horror stories from being screwed over and left in bad financial situations. I hardly see any posts about the pros of being a SAHM

It’s an interesting question. I think it’s a feminist issue- if you want equality and hope for that in the future, maybe for your daughter, it’s disappointing to see so many women making choices which are antithetical to equality in terms of economics and achievements. Sometimes I feel that those choices reflect on me- there’s an expectation that I’ll cut back on work at some point- and I don’t like it.

That said, you can never judge someone else’s decisions until you’ve lived their life, and I try not to... I’m sure there are plenty of women who said they'd never be SAHM and changed their minds at some point due to a change in circumstances.

@orangebug I just re read and you didn't mention pension! But i suppose this demonstrates it's in my head....I knew the implications of these years away and I still made my choice.

I took our way longer than you and returned easily but lots of that was planning and some luck. I certainly enjoyed my SAHM time and have no regrets. Actually though I think being a teacher in certain subjects, in certain areas means that you can get back pretty easily. My friend who was a HOD of Art who was on UPS3 Plus tlr took four years out and after hundreds of applications is now on half previous pay at an independent. No one wanted to pay too whack for a returning art teacher. An engineer friend went back to a different area and took a 25k pay cut and a know a few women who were in business management and financial areas who now up cycle furniture and dog walk as they couldn’t get back in at all. They thought they would, so I really get the caution - but the arseholes but the caution. That fine years of reduced pension is a buggy and if you never then get to meaningfully top that up then you are really screwed.

Every sahm I’ve known who was a professional and smart pre kids has got another decent job even after 5/6 years out. I am maybe not as stellar as I could have been but frankly didn’t want to be as in my profession that meant working mental hours and I loved my 6 sahm years wouldn’t have missed those for anything.

@Coldties

I am a working mum and I agree with you OP!

I don’t think MN seems very pro SAHM and all I ever read is horror stories from being screwed over and left in bad financial situations. I hardly see any posts about the pros of being a SAHM

Well, probably for much the same reason that you don't see threads about happy marriages with no problems; there's no reason people who don't need help would post.

But if you do see a lot of threads about the pitfalls of not working and being unprotected, it makes sense that it will come up in discussions about the topic. It's a real and obvious pitfall. Won't befall everyone, of course, but clearly it does happen, hence the threads about it. It's not hating on SAHMs to let people know there are some things of which they need to be mindful.

There is a lot of typos there but you know what I mean!

After seeing posts accusing SAH mums to be useless, to be boring, to "prostitute themselves"!!!

I completely agree with you.

It's jealousy. No one is that vile and offensive if they genuinely care for the financial independence of a stranger. So it's jealousy, pure and simple, from someone who hates their job, hates their situation and is basically miserable.

surely if things start to go wrong with your partner you just find a job?

Oh yes, easy-peasy when you have a nightmare partner who doesn't pull their weight or one you've just escaped from, you have small children and no childcare to speak of. Jobs that fit around looking after kids are so easy to find.

@Dustyhedge

I guess this is in response to the thread where the lady has been a sahm for 18 years. That is a completely different kettle of fish to a 4 year career break. A lot of the advice was pointing out the need to be realistic but also asking what volunteering experience she had. With the best will in the world, someone in that position isn’t going to be the most attractive prospect unless they’d been doing a lot of non-work stuff.

Personally I think there are a lot of benefits of having a sahp but those making out they are too busy doing the household admin to get a job aren’t doing themselves any favours really.

Partly in response to her thread, but not just that thread...lots of them. I agree 18 years is very different and some of the responses were more as people didn't like the ops responses rather than anything to do with being a sahm. Which is fair enough

The posts about financially abusive husbands are as much from women who work as otherwise - eg. the husband has separate finances; they pay 50/50 for bills even though she earns considerably less, etc etc. There are married women who have to go back to work sooner than they are ready because the husband won’t give them a penny towards anything - including the baby! This is financial abuse.

I’ve been a SAHM for about 18 years. If I had been financially vulnerable, I would not have been a SAHM. It really is as simple as that. Being a SAHM is a total non-issue in the real world as I experience it. If I think of my street now, I’d say 80% if women are SAH, with kids ranging from little ones to those who have left home. It’s the norm here. My 4 kids have all gone / are going through school and I must have met hundreds of SAHMs over the years and it’s simply not an issue or a topic of discussion. Nobody cares and I can’t think of one occasion when anyone has ever asked. Yet, on here, people have such very strange ideas about SAHMs and think we all need advice. It’s really odd.