Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

@MsTSwift

Every sahm I’ve known who was a professional and smart pre kids has got another decent job even after 5/6 years out. I am maybe not as stellar as I could have been but frankly didn’t want to be as in my profession that meant working mental hours and I loved my 6 sahm years wouldn’t have missed those for anything.

Exactly my thoughts

@blacksax

surely if things start to go wrong with your partner you just find a job?

Oh yes, easy-peasy when you have a nightmare partner who doesn't pull their weight or one you've just escaped from, you have small children and no childcare to speak of. Jobs that fit around looking after kids are so easy to find.

Yes and of course they pay so well too!

You get the odd dickhead, but mainly I don’t think people here are anti-SAHM, just pro-women not becoming completely financially dependent on a man and leaving themselves vulnerable
This is spot on.
There seems to be some deliberate confusion between giving practical advice (eg. Check your financial situation, don't list out that you're a PA/chef/educator when you apply for jobs because an interview panel is not going to be impressed by how much you talk up family admin), and the few arseholes who seem to dislike the SAHP choice.

@tobedtoMNandfart

IMO MN responses are on a spectrum :

Married SAHM/ SAHD with preschool/ primary age children - pretty acceptable.

....

Unmarried SAHM, multiple children, no financial independence, not on mortgage/deeds... what were you thinking?!

FWIW I was a SAHM and firmly believe it is the very best thing for young children so good for you, and hope the new job goes well 💐

I'd add to that:

SAHM of children over the age of 10, married or not - unemployed layabout who has a single brain cell and cannot possibly manage an intelligent conversation with another adult.

@PuffItsGone

For me it’s when they have school age children but say that the housework and ‘admin’ of running a household takes up ALL their time and they have NO spare time to themselves. I work full time and do the housework and the admin....

Omg this is so true.

@paloma10

The posts about financially abusive husbands are as much from women who work as otherwise - eg. the husband has separate finances; they pay 50/50 for bills even though she earns considerably less, etc etc. There are married women who have to go back to work sooner than they are ready because the husband won’t give them a penny towards anything - including the baby! This is financial abuse.

I’ve been a SAHM for about 18 years. If I had been financially vulnerable, I would not have been a SAHM. It really is as simple as that. Being a SAHM is a total non-issue in the real world as I experience it. If I think of my street now, I’d say 80% if women are SAH, with kids ranging from little ones to those who have left home. It’s the norm here. My 4 kids have all gone / are going through school and I must have met hundreds of SAHMs over the years and it’s simply not an issue or a topic of discussion. Nobody cares and I can’t think of one occasion when anyone has ever asked. Yet, on here, people have such very strange ideas about SAHMs and think we all need advice. It’s really odd.

Thank you. You articulate this so well. Not all sahms (although I concede some are) are vulnerable as MN posters seem often insistent on.

@motherloaded

After seeing posts accusing SAH mums to be useless, to be boring, to "prostitute themselves"!!!

I completely agree with you.

It's jealousy. No one is that vile and offensive if they genuinely care for the financial independence of a stranger. So it's jealousy, pure and simple, from someone who hates their job, hates their situation and is basically miserable.

Some people are that vile and offensive because they’re just rude arseholes on an anonymous forum. It really doesn’t always come down to jealousy. Sometimes it’s just complete disrespect for someone who chooses to be a SAHM, voiced in a very nasty way. As I said upthread, it’s irritating and tedious when any negative opinion about a SAHM is assumed to be jealousy. It’s quite an arrogant assumption if you think about it!

Lots of folk project onto others, their own vulnerabilities.
I get it in RL too, from my best pal. She loves her job and the status it brings. She doesn’t want to be financially dependent on her DH. She identifies herself through her work. I totally get that and appreciate that it’s her choice and good on her. I never pass negative comments on her life choices, not even when she lists all the ubiquitous points about mine: working Mums are a good role model; best not to be financially dependent on a man; yada, yada.

The only thing that makes me sad is the overwhelming assumption that every relationship is going to go tits up with a SAHM being left skint. Yes it happens but not to everyone. Some live happy ever after. Some do split and get an equal share of assets, some even take their exes to the cleaners. If we were all so sure that every relationship was doomed we’d never have one, never mind having kids with anyone.

Both sides can make fairly unpleasant statements but you tend to notice those against the one you’re doing

If you think that’s bad, split from your partner and become a single mum.

Having being in mumsnet from trillions of years, half as SAHM and half as a divorced parent, I would say, when it comes to Mumsnet, it is far easier to be a SAHM than a single mum, even if you become a single parent because your partner died.

Has anybody ever told you you should have kept your legs crossed when you felt overwhelmed with parenting on your own? So edifying... not

I also think that what really grinds the gears of a lot of SAHMs are the snidey comments along the lines of "I'd be so bored", "what do you DO al day", "better role model for my daughter", "wasting my education".

Even if working mums don't mean to be nasty - and to be honest most of them are making passive aggressive jibes - obviously telling a woman who has chosen to spend time at home with her kids that she is basically just a bit thick, shallow and bored is going to go down like a tonne of bricks, isn't it?

Mumsnet is just awful to everyone sometimes. The SAHM threads get some working Mums saying get a job and contribute but equally working mums get told by SAHM that they love their children too much, want to raise their own children etc implying working mums don’t.

@motherloaded

After seeing posts accusing SAH mums to be useless, to be boring, to "prostitute themselves"!!!

I completely agree with you.

It's jealousy. No one is that vile and offensive if they genuinely care for the financial independence of a stranger. So it's jealousy, pure and simple, from someone who hates their job, hates their situation and is basically miserable.

Some posters are arseholes, look down on various groups of people and make vile and inflammatory comments about them. It's definitely not a SAHM thing.

Just like some posters go all "pawning your kids off" or "why did you even have kids if you can't be bothered raising them" and various other bullshit .

Most longer-term SAHMs I know who don’t go back to work when the kids are in school have no intention of returning to their old careers. I think your perspective changes over these years maybe? Many retrain and eventually work for themselves; or they start up all sorts of businesses (or not). Property redevelopment is a big one and they do it in the side. Counsellors and therapists are careers that you can retrain for and still be in control of how many hours you work. If your husband has a diverse business / investment portfolio it’s common to become involved in that to some extent too. Many set up charities or they do all sorts of things to be honest - the list is endless. The point is, they were never planning or worried about whether they would struggle to get back into their olds roles and that’s not really the mindset.

It's as bad when it comes to women who worked. I've read really cutting replies on most issues.
Ignoring comments that hurt helps usually the person making them hasn't a clue about your way of life.

I've only seen negativity towards women continuing to remain out of work when all the children are at school all day, especially the ones who seem to think wraparound care doesnt exist and make this weird link that have children under 16 means a mother cannot possibly work longer hours than 10am-2pm. Mummy must be there for EVERY SINGLE school run.

You haven't seen the comments about those returning to work then? Leaving their babies with strangers, never seeing their children, what's the point of having kids if you don't spend time with them etc.

Some people are just judgemental twats. I know lazy SAHM's and bloody brilliant ones.

The SAHMs can look after themselves tbf.

For every post from a woman saying she would be ashamed for her DD to be a SAHM there are five going:

I could never leave my DCs with strangers
You never get the time back
I'm not interested in the career ladder, I'm interested in my children.

etc.
Some people are quite venomous about SAHMs and its out of order.

But a lot of it is borne from a place of feeling endlessly judged by SAHMs who have the luxury of not having to work and who claim that working parents damage children. If you're someone like me who has no choice but to work -- you are inclined sometimes to hit back and stand up for yourself.

Cuts both ways.

It seems that there are a small percentage of people, both here and in real life, that can't conceive of a contribution to a relationship beyond the purely financial. It seems to be a growing trend and it's not a good one, in my opinion.

@RaspberryCoulis

I also think that what really grinds the gears of a lot of SAHMs are the snidey comments along the lines of "I'd be so bored", "what do you DO al day", "better role model for my daughter", "wasting my education".

Even if working mums don't mean to be nasty - and to be honest most of them are making passive aggressive jibes - obviously telling a woman who has chosen to spend time at home with her kids that she is basically just a bit thick, shallow and bored is going to go down like a tonne of bricks, isn't it?

I don't agree with this necessarily. I have said before that i would be bored. I thought I would love being at home with my small children every day but lockdown has shown me that I can't do it. It makes me very low, impatient and flat.

I admire those mums who don't mind setting up a messy play activity, only for the children to be bored by it after 5 minutes. Or have the patience to sit and sing rhymes or play for hours a day. Or have the patience to go off on really long walks and carry the children if they get too tired and start whinging.

But I am not that mum. I can do things like that from time to time but not all day, every day. I pay the nursery for the messy play and the activities so that when my kids are at home we can do the stuff I am better at, like baking or days out at the beach or reading etc.

@motherloaded

After seeing posts accusing SAH mums to be useless, to be boring, to "prostitute themselves"!!!

I completely agree with you.

It's jealousy. No one is that vile and offensive if they genuinely care for the financial independence of a stranger. So it's jealousy, pure and simple, from someone who hates their job, hates their situation and is basically miserable.

Not necessarily. Lots of women love their careers and just can't fathom why another woman wouldn't want to work. I love mine and TBH I do struggle to see the appeal in being a SAHM with no "break" or intellectual challenge - which would undoubtedly be jumped on as suggesting being a SAHM = drudgery and for thickos, which is not what I mean at all! Plenty of incredibly bright women choose to be a SAHM. But for me, those are the reasons I love my job, as well as having that external validation that I'm "worth"/good at something.

All that shows is my own issues of self esteem and that I don't enjoy playing/doing activities all day for months on end. It is not intended to show that I disparage SAHMs, but I can see how a SAHM might read it and think so.

We're often really touchy about our own circumstances - which is natural I suppose, as our DC are the most important thing in life our lives. We all like to think we're getting it right, and for some people that means that those who aren't doing what we do are in some way getting it wrong.

Ha! I see my thread about being a SAHM for 18 years (and now looking for work) has had a couple of mentions

OP - I've been on MN for 15+ years. It's always had robust debate but the quality has deteriorated in recent years - much of the wit and wisdom and humour has gone and been replaced with relentless nastiness.

PP who said Mumsnet hates itself was spot on! It hates SAHMs and WOHMs.

There are some supportive posters - the majority on my thread were brilliant - but the bores love a pile on.

I highly recommend the 'hide button - I hid my own thread

I think a lot of posters are advising other women not to make themselves financially vulnerable by being SAHMs due to bitter experience.

I think teaching is one of the few careers where you can take a career break and get back fairly easily. Most other careers are not like that as your skills are no longer current and desirable after a prolonged career break.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I've only seen negativity towards women continuing to remain out of work when all the children are at school all day, especially the ones who seem to think wraparound care doesnt exist and make this weird link that have children under 16 means a mother cannot possibly work longer hours than 10am-2pm. Mummy must be there for EVERY SINGLE school run.

But isn't that their choice? If they really want to do the school run so badly that they are willing not to work..and can afford to do so/partner is on board, isn't that their choice? If it works for their family what's the issue?