To refuse to sell this lady a puppy?

[ensete]

I have a litter of working golden retrievers, i collated a waiting list before I had our bitch mated and I spent a long time speaking to interested parties to find the best homes I could do - this is how I have dealt with previous litters.
Both parents are working gundogs and I stated that whilst I didn't need working homes I would only consider active homes with the space to accommodate a large working breed.
One of the families who is on my list contacted me today just to say "hi, my husband and I have decided to split up, I will still be wanting the puppy but my address will now by Flat4a XYZ Town"
I messaged back to enquire what sort of set up it was and she confirmed it's a flat on the top floor with no garden or outside space. I've confirmed with her that I'm not happy to sell a puppy to a home without any outside space and I will refund her deposit immediately and advertise the puppy. She's refusing to give me her bank details and says she wants the pup and will take legal action if required. My argument is that the home I vetted is no longer the home she's offering and therefore I'm not willing to sell her the puppy. To me, changing the home on offer isn't dissimilar to her changing the amount of money she is willing to pay for the pup. The homes I find for puppies are very important to me, I'm not a big breeder, I've just had a litter for my own purposes to keep the next generation and I need to know my puppies are going to the right sort of home.

YANBU. We also breed golden retriever a and would have said exactly the same thing.

How refreshing to hear of a conscientious breeder. You are absolutely right, you owe it to the puppy whose life you brought about.

Well done!

@Kpo58

What is the area like around this woman's flat? If it's a 5-10 mins walk to a large park or countryside and and is retired or works at home, then it's probably not a problem.

It is a problem, I have a 10 month old Labrador and he was out a great deal during toilet training. I can imagine it would be nigh impossible to adequately toilet train a puppy from a top floor flat!

OP- The breeder we used had also done the same as you and just had bad vibes about the people buying a puppy and just handed their money back.

You are doing the responsible thing, puppies, dogs need a garden and outside space for exercise, playing games, fetch the ball etc, i would be the same as yourself, either go to the address you were given and give her a cheque or refund in cash, or send it recorded delivery, you are responsible and its up to you where and whom to sell the pups too, take no nonsense from her, threatening legal action, its all talk, im getting threatened by my 2 sisters over my late fathers estate, i take no notice of them, the evil witches want thier own way and because they are not getting it they harass me with nasty e mails which i have got them blocked now hopefully and they started on text messages and nasty phone calls , laughing at me, putting the phone down, my dad left my older sister a third of hes mobile home and myself and my younger sister inherit the rest, hes other shared of hes home, hes bank account money, hes car, premium bonds etc after the solicitors are paid and bills paid and grown rent on hes mobile home, and they dont want me to have anything, my younger sister took my dads car day after hes funeral, she is saying shes hidden it and im not seeing a penny from the car, shes taken all items out of hes home without my consent, im executor along with her, she wont let me do anything, she has a solicitor i got a caveat to stop her selling my dads home etc, she went to probate and somehow got to be executor , i did have a solicitor in wales which my sister agreed to have, then changed her mind and said she didnt agree having them when she did shes got this solicitor in nottingham now and the solicitor in wales wants paying £2,400 and both my sisters insist ive got to pay this and all ground rent where my dads mobile home is, which is iuntrue comes out of the estate, my 2 sisters have made me ill for over a year now, they like to bully and harass so take no damm notice of who ever this woman is, her threats will not happen, she is all talk, take no notice, good luck with selling all the pups and keep your chin up, i have to, got chest infection now, but ive still got to keep going for my dads sake big hugs christine

We have a huge dog in a ground floor flat and a large common nearby.
Training him to be clean in the flat would have been very difficult anywhere other than the ground floor. YANBU. Send her money back by registered mail as a cheque.You are doing the right thing

Good on you
A breeder with scruples
The contract has been broken ( her side)

I feel sorry for the woman - in the middle of a divorce/housemove etc. I quite see why she would want a lovely fluffy pup to comfort her.

However you are absolutely right to consider the puppy first.

Clearly this is something she is not able to do at the moment and the pup should have someone responsible and knowledgable looking out for it.

It is likely that you are also being kind to her - even if she doesn't see it yet. A confined/distressed puppy is going to be another burden - not a comfort.

Definitely not being unreasonable.

You are actually doing her a great kindness by not letting your puppy go to her.

Well done OP. YANBU.

We are getting a puppy in a couple of months. I had to go through a similar, pretty stringent vetting process which I was happy to do. I also had questions to the breeder about her breeding programme and the welfare of all the bitches / dogs involved. We both have to be very comfortable with each other.

You want to make sure your dogs have the best lives possible. A big, intelligent working dog in a flat is not great

... home for your nugget here too :)
I am melted by your puppy picture.

Our wonderful working lab died at Easter (after an illness of a few days,and almost 15 years of woodland/cliff walking together). She is so much missed.

Even in her later years, she would have missed a lot living in a flat. She couldn' t see or hear much by the end, but lstill oved to sniff new trails and to check out the garden many times a day.

Some dogs can live in flats some can't. Your puppy (soon to be large dog) is a definite can't.

@ensete

Photo of golden nuggets in garden today. It's difficult to get a photo at the moment because they are FLAT OUT shuffle mode. They have lovely crinkly noses and puppy breath.

I'll take them all 😍🥰

You are completely in the right. I have a flat coated retriever and a jackapoo. The jackapoo would manage fine with loads of walks but the retriever journey way. He lives for the garden. I've just been really ill for a week week all I could do was sit in our garden and throw a ball. That saved his sanity. I would never have his sort of breed in a top floor flat.

YANBU
Your puppies, your rules, I came away from a meeting with a breeder once feeling like I had been interviewed, she later admitted that’s what she was doing.
You are absolutely being a responsible breeder especially for a working dog.
Good luck finding a good home.

I wish all breeders were as diligent and ethical as you. YANBU. you are a wonderful person for protecting these fur babies! xx

My dad was a professional gundog breeder and trainer for many years. H bred one of the most successful male sires in the UK. He vetted potential buyers rigorously and frequently turned potential buyers away if he thought they were unsuitable. You are quite correct to take this line, the pups are yours and you can refund the deposit. You are being responsible.

It sounds like she is being very selfish and putting what she wants above the needs of a dog that is not only a large breed but also has working bloodline. The new living arrangements will clearly not be in the dog's best interests - you know it and if she was a responsible dog owner-to-be she should too. The fact that she is trying to scare you with meritless legal action is also not okay. You should not be bullied into this when it is clearly not the right thing to do. Stay strong and stand your ground. Big hugs to you and all your pups xx

A top floor flat is no environment for an active puppy. Get a bank cheque send to her new address recorded delivery. She has no right to demand a puppy if her circumstances have changed. Thank you for being such a responsible breeder.

As a goldie owner (and considering getting another!) you just can’t keep them without having access to outside space. We also wouldn’t have dreamed of getting a golden retriever if one of us wasn’t around for them during the day. It’s not fair on them. Even worse as the pup is from a working line.

You’re doing the right thing. Anyone objectively looking at this can see that. She’s obviously got her heart set on it and maybe needs the company after her separation, but it just wouldn’t be right on the pup,

Stick to your guns. Best of luck finding a new home, I’m sure you’ll have no difficulty. They’re gorgeous!

YANBU!!

Please don't sell the puppy to a flat dweller

YANBU, definitely, and I wish more breeders would be the same. Some dogs can live very happily in flats - we rehomed an 8yo lurcher/staffy 18 months ago, and we live in a first floor flat. We have a garden but obviously it's down a flight of stairs. But our boy was already impeccably behaved and toilet trained, and not generally the boisterous type (and we are right next to a huge park as well). Even with our easy chap it's annoying not just being able to let him out the back door for a quick wee. I can't even imagine how hard it would be trying to properly raise a puppy in our flat, let alone a working breed.

I think you are well within your rights to stand by your point of it not being the home you vetted - there is also the point that if she has split from the husband, she might well be living alone and therefore might struggle to be around for the puppy as much as it will need in the beginning - even as a couple/family it is tough not to be able to leave them alone at home, which obviously you can't do with a young puppy.

My gr loved the (his) garden....

I was on a breeder’s list and she had a scary WhatsApp group. Potential puppy owners kept “disappearing” and a replacement would pop up. And then it was me who was deleted..... Her puppies, her rules, but all the same I’m glad for whatever reason I was found wanting. Another breeder I dared to ask the price, and I was told crisply it wasn’t about the price. Well, it didn’t used to be about the price, but post 2020 it’s reasonable to find out if the breeder is charging £4K.

There’s a puppy waiting for me somewhere....

100% agree with you not wanting to give her your pup but also remember that the buyer is going through a crap time with her divorce and now resorting to living in a flat rather than her house with garden. She probably really wanted the company and love from her new pup too to get her through this period and her heart has been (further) broken. Not saying at all that she should have it for this reason but think just be mindful in the way you return this cheque; she may not be in the best place in her life at the moment and just needs a little kindness too to make her realise she's being unreasonable.
We all have moments where we are being shitty that we regret later... well i certainly have!

You're a good person OP for showing so much care for your puppies!

You are doing the best for the dog. I have elderly dog and have to walk it for around 30-40 mins before I go to work, for 6 hours, then immediately on my return. When the weather is bad it's a pita but a change in circumstances means there is only me to care for them. I have a garden but because neighbours fence is in such poor order I am unable to let them out at the moment so walks it is. I have friends with GR one is easy laid back the other is nuts. The nuts one would never survive in a flat or at least the flat wouldn't survive the GR.