To refuse to sell this lady a puppy?

[ensete]

I have a litter of working golden retrievers, i collated a waiting list before I had our bitch mated and I spent a long time speaking to interested parties to find the best homes I could do - this is how I have dealt with previous litters.
Both parents are working gundogs and I stated that whilst I didn't need working homes I would only consider active homes with the space to accommodate a large working breed.
One of the families who is on my list contacted me today just to say "hi, my husband and I have decided to split up, I will still be wanting the puppy but my address will now by Flat4a XYZ Town"
I messaged back to enquire what sort of set up it was and she confirmed it's a flat on the top floor with no garden or outside space. I've confirmed with her that I'm not happy to sell a puppy to a home without any outside space and I will refund her deposit immediately and advertise the puppy. She's refusing to give me her bank details and says she wants the pup and will take legal action if required. My argument is that the home I vetted is no longer the home she's offering and therefore I'm not willing to sell her the puppy. To me, changing the home on offer isn't dissimilar to her changing the amount of money she is willing to pay for the pup. The homes I find for puppies are very important to me, I'm not a big breeder, I've just had a litter for my own purposes to keep the next generation and I need to know my puppies are going to the right sort of home.

[jillybeanclevertips]

You are 100% right. We recently bought a Golden and were vetted for her. Goldens have very specific needs, (e.g routine.) Do what you know you must. She is not in a good place (mentally) for a puppy right now. and the idea of providing stability isn't on her agenda.

[LobotomisedIceSkatingFan]

[quote honeybee88]@twistered
I always get what I want.....lol.
Meh....in a bad mood....fancied an argument. My sis had no problem training her dog. You have a valid argument but I dont agree. Also I can have any attitude I want.....so let it stink.....hahaha[/quote]
Then let's hope one day you want to have something resembling intellect and mental acuity . . .
Good to see they still sell 20/20 where honeybee lives.

[Alexapissoff]

@DobbyTheHouseElk absolutely.

I would love to have another GR in my life at some point. And while I do love the working lines, I’ve only ever had them as a child and as an adult when we have lived rurally and had miles of fields and trails and places for them to swim right out of our front door.

I live in a town now, and while I have a garden and am near a large park (country side near but a drive), I know I couldn’t keep a working dog happy here. So if I am lucky enough to have another GR in future, I’ll be looking for one that comes from a show line.

[ign0re]

You’re being very responsible and if only all breeders were like you! (Would be interested in the pup myself but I imagine you have waiting list ha!)

I’d just say I’m sorry your new accommodation is not a suitable environment for the puppy and I would like to offer you a refund of your deposit. Please let me know your details and I will arrange a transfer for you immediately.
I’m sorry you’re going through a hard time but I won’t be able to move on this.
Looking forward to receiving your payment details.

Then don’t respond to anything else
It’s up to her to give you her details and if she doesn’t it’s not really your job to chase
Don’t get involved as any conversation other than that around the return of money will make her think she can change your mind just don’t acknowledge or waste any more time!

[ign0re]

Ah sorry should have read the whole thread! Glad you managed to resolve! Imagine she’s having a difficult time and this is just another thing but you can’t let that get in the way of looking out for your beautiful puppies! All the best

[ellyeth]

I don't think, legally speaking, that any claim she made would be upheld. The terms of the purchase were that the dog would have outside space and she can no longer satisfy that requirement.

[ellyeth]

Sorry, I should have read the thread properly before posting. I see the issue is now resolved.

[llizzie]

Harmonypuss. My post was not about finance, it was a suggestion that the OP might tell the lady who is so determined to have the puppy that she will ask the RSPCA to do a check up on the flat.

Perhaps the RSPCA only do inspections for their own dogs, but it might make the lady who refuses to accept back the deposit think about it.

It might have been better if the OP had kept the cheque rather than cash it?

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

I've always had workers

Same here Ravensclaw.

I've always had a theory that with a working dog they breed for health, intelligence and sweet-nature - all the points you look for in a pet. Beauty is a bonus. (And we all think our own dogs are the most beautiful, don't we? Just like our own children . So we always get that "bonus")

However, you are absolutely right - all of these plus points mean that you have to keep them physically active, intellectually stimulated and emotionally secure. Not always an easy task. One of my three spanners is so sensitive that you just have to use a disapproving voice (not necessarily to her) and she is visibly saddened.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

We do spend a lot of time outdoors though and someone is always with him

And there you have it Eivor.

Lots of time outdoors.

AND

SOMEONE IS ALWAYS WITH HIM!

[LadyWhistledownsQuill]

That said, flats are no places for any breed of dog. Unless it’s a ground floor with a big garden at a push.

What's the difference - from a dog's point of view - between a ground floor flat and a bungalow, with equally sized gardens? Neighbours living upstairs don't constitute a welfare issue.

Similarly, what's the welfare difference between a small terraced house and a garden flat? The only thing that differentiates the two is the presence of stairs.

Indeed, the lack of stairs is an advantage for some breeds - dachshunds in particular - and for elderly / disabled dogs that find stairs tricky to manage.

Dogs need a private garden, but beyond that there really is some ridiculous pearl clutching about the idea of dogs in flats.

[A1b2c3d4e5f6g7]

@LadyWhistledownsQuill I'd agree, we have a dog but in a big flat in London, no private garden (I don't let him use the communal one) but he's either at field daycare on 2 acres with a ton of other dogs, or I walk him 8-10 km a day - he goes out five times a day when home with us. He's a rescue, and its an infinitely better life than he would have had. Many of our neighbours do the same. And we have a lift so there's no walking down the stairs which can cause issues with joints and spine. He's a high energy dog but it works fine. I sometimes think people in flats (who're responsible dog owners, I know there have been some bad examples above) make much more effort to be out and about with their dogs rather than just popping them in the garden

[Squeezyhug]

Her attitude is a huge red flag.
You have offered her the deposit back. It’s up to her whether to take it.
Either way, she shouldn’t get the dog because her circumstances have changed and a large dog in a flat is not in the best interests of the dog.

[Brigante9]

It's very rare for puppies to still be with the breeder/mum at 8 weeks of age although I totally agree with everything else you say here

It’s the law in the UK so unless you’re not in the U.K., that’s an odd comment to make.

Re working dogs, my first two were working. They were calm and only needed a good blast round the woods daily to keep them entertained while of my current two pet bred, one needs a job and entertaining far more than my workers.

[Ravenclawsome]

@Brigante9

It's very rare for puppies to still be with the breeder/mum at 8 weeks of age although I totally agree with everything else you say here

It’s the law in the UK so unless you’re not in the U.K., that’s an odd comment to make.

Re working dogs, my first two were working. They were calm and only needed a good blast round the woods daily to keep them entertained while of my current two pet bred, one needs a job and entertaining far more than my workers.

There's a massive difference in drive levels depending on breeding among workers. Some breed fir high drive, others focus on steadiness.
But they are breeding for consistent behaviour, rather than consistent looks.

Personally I prefer dogs about halfway down the scale.

[me109f]

Well done for trusting your instincts. Do not let her have your puppy. You clearly understand the needs of these dogs (I have had 3 labs) and big dogs need exercise and fun.
Her insistance to buy your puppy is suspicious, she may want to sell it on to anyone who will make her a profit, or just let the dog live miserably locked up in her flat for most of the day.
All the respondants so far agree with you and tell you how to repay her. She is a twat for trying to threaten you over this. The law is diffinitely on your side. Give the RSPCA a ring if you are worried.

[BillyTodd]

@LadyWhistledownsQuill

That said, flats are no places for any breed of dog. Unless it’s a ground floor with a big garden at a push.

What's the difference - from a dog's point of view - between a ground floor flat and a bungalow, with equally sized gardens? Neighbours living upstairs don't constitute a welfare issue.

Similarly, what's the welfare difference between a small terraced house and a garden flat? The only thing that differentiates the two is the presence of stairs.

Indeed, the lack of stairs is an advantage for some breeds - dachshunds in particular - and for elderly / disabled dogs that find stairs tricky to manage.

Dogs need a private garden, but beyond that there really is some ridiculous pearl clutching about the idea of dogs in flats.

Give them a break, you're nit picking on the basis of "at a push." You know as well as I do that there are some small bungalows with small gardens which will be just as "not really ideal for a dog", as some small ground floor flats with gardens. Actually I had a friend who lived in the tiniest house I have ever been in with a large and very active needs dog, so it's not just bungalows that this comparison could be limited to either. (as an aside, the dog's welfare was not compromised, she walked him 4 hours a day and the pair of them only really used the house for sleeping in...)

OP's potential purchaser isn't in a ground floor flat, & doesn't have access to a garden, so it's a straw man argument anyway.

[Dullardmullard]

Contract wasn’t with woman but man lovely so she hasn’t a leg to stand on.

So has she been in contact since as I’d tell her deals done with her ex and that’s an end to the matter.

[sueelleker]

I know you'e refunded him, but did you ask the husband if he wanted the puppy himself?

[ensete]

The husband was of the view that she had already "cancelled" the puppy, at no point during our conversation did he even suggest he would like it.

Whilst I appreciate that some people seek out working bred dogs as pets, there is a difference between using a working line and breeding to produce a working dog.

As I stated in my opening post, I bred to keep a pup, to work. Both the dam and the sires pedigree are five gen field trial champions, if I've got the breeding right, these will be very hot puppies with a very high drive - they're not appropriate for your average pet home - they need a lot of mental stimulation and training that an ever age pet home won't be able to offer. My last litter of working retriever lent themselves very well to pet homes and I was happy to sell them as such but these are all together a lot more spicy so I'm being as diligent as I can be when it comes to finding homes.

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

I've had a Golden Retriever in a flat, but it did have a garden, and he came to work with me, had about 2 hours of exercise a day which mostly included a swim rolling in mud.

Having said that, had lovely dog before moving to flat as a result of splitting up with partner,