To refuse to sell this lady a puppy?

[ensete]

I have a litter of working golden retrievers, i collated a waiting list before I had our bitch mated and I spent a long time speaking to interested parties to find the best homes I could do - this is how I have dealt with previous litters.
Both parents are working gundogs and I stated that whilst I didn't need working homes I would only consider active homes with the space to accommodate a large working breed.
One of the families who is on my list contacted me today just to say "hi, my husband and I have decided to split up, I will still be wanting the puppy but my address will now by Flat4a XYZ Town"
I messaged back to enquire what sort of set up it was and she confirmed it's a flat on the top floor with no garden or outside space. I've confirmed with her that I'm not happy to sell a puppy to a home without any outside space and I will refund her deposit immediately and advertise the puppy. She's refusing to give me her bank details and says she wants the pup and will take legal action if required. My argument is that the home I vetted is no longer the home she's offering and therefore I'm not willing to sell her the puppy. To me, changing the home on offer isn't dissimilar to her changing the amount of money she is willing to pay for the pup. The homes I find for puppies are very important to me, I'm not a big breeder, I've just had a litter for my own purposes to keep the next generation and I need to know my puppies are going to the right sort of home.

If you buy a pet you have a legal obligation to provide it with a suitable home, diet, vet care if needed, plus you must let it exhibit normal behaviours.
If the seller suspects you can't, they are not obliged to carry on with the sale. The seller has a duty of care because animals are not ordinary goods; they are live.

If the seller is a private individual (not a licensed breeder) they are not running a business.

@nowlook most had returned to work and were struggling as dogs were left far too long and becoming destructive. With a few resource guarding in puppies under 12 months and two deformities which could of been avoided had the breeders done the correct screening tests. I even met a beautiful rescue collie pup (11 months) walking mine last week who they were fostering as the owners apparently didn’t realise how much energy they have and pup was a little full on with their toddler. All I seem to see are posts on sm asking about where they can get a puppy or dog from and I feel like many people don’t understand the commitment, time and energy involved with dogs, and that they are not a disposable commodity.

Surely she's changed the terms of the deal by moving to a flat? You wouldn't have even considered selling to her or anyone else living in a flat. Therefore I think it is perfectly acceptable to say you won't sell to her.

I'm no expert but if she were suing you, she'd be asking a court to either make you give her the puppy (and I doubt she'd get very far - it's rare that a court will enforce a contract where a breach can be compensated by money instead) or to award damages for breach of contract. In that case she'd have to show a loss caused by your breach of contract. In a scenario where you've returned the deposit, and assuming that puppy prices haven't sky-rocketed since you agreed to sell her, I'm not sure what she thinks her loss would be...

All that is assuming that you couldn't successfully argue that her living arrangements were a fundamental condition of contract which she breached.

The threat to take you to court sounds like a lot of hot air to my ear!

@MAMAW31

Why would she give you nee address?

Needed for KC change of ownership, and more importantly to re-register the microchip (without which it would be illegal to sell a puppy over 8 weeks).

I think it's also needed if breeder provides 4 weeks insurance.

I know it sounds as if she was being honest, but the potential buyer here was only providing what she knew she would have to use in 3 weeks time anyhow.

You're being responsible.

She's being a dipstick, she doesn't have a leg to stand on regarding the threat of court.

People's circumstances can and do just change, and the thought of her new pup probably kept her going during a tough time.
Sure. But it's selfish and irresponsible to let that override the dog's needs. And may well ultimately backfire on her if she ends up with a dog that's a problem and takes a lot of time/money to sort out.

I think we need new photos an update.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I think we need new photos an update.

YES 🥰

I would send a cheque to the new address. You are quite right to decide not to sell to her as her circumstances are completely different.
Having just bought a working dog she definitely needs the space she now doesn’t have. We are lucky our apartment is 2 floors we have lots of outside space and a large balcony with faux grass, we also live opposite a conservation site and walk the dog twice a day because the exercise is needed. I’ll admit I’d struggle dealing with a working dog and work full time if I was alone as she now is. She may want a dog but given her circumstances a working dog is not for her. Definitely refund.

Completely agree you are doing the right thing.

YANBU I have seen people abroad housing dogs in flats and the poor animals pacing the balcony. I doubt a lot of flats here even have that option. I think she's being very unrealistic in her expectations and should probably think about a tiny dog at most. We have a small garden but I still don't consider our place suitable for owning a dog, especially of that size. Good on you for putting principles and welfare first.
A cheque in the post or hand over the money in cash, with a witness if necessary.

I'd do exactly the same as you and legally she hasn't a leg to stand on.

I don't see how you could begin to housetrain a puppy in a top floor flat, and how can she allow it any outside life other than a daily walk? Dogs like mooching. We had a working lab when I grew up, and we had a dogflap - a lockable one, for when we were all out, including the dog! I'd often hear it go at night if she wanted a moonlit wander.

If she wants to rescue an elder dog from a rescue, then they must have eg greyhounds or spaniels who just want cuddles and a daily run, and would be okay in a flat. But a puppy? And a working breed, at that? Bonkers. Has she ever owned a working bred dog before? Ours needed 2 walks a day until 12 or so, and when young, one of those walks had to be for a couple of hours. It was a huge tie for my mum.

You're being a responsible breeder, and a dog isn't a piece of antique furniture - it's a living creature with its own needs. Why on earth would you condemn it to this start? Good for you.

do not sell your puppy to that selfish person ...

YANBU we rehomed an 18 month old Labrador retriever from a couple with a new baby and dc that had just started school and were living in an upstairs flat. Both the adult humans and the dog were completely stressed out. Can say from that experience that being in a small space is no good for a boisterous young dog. Stick to your guns and don’t be intimidated.

I applaud you completely, and would point out the practicalities of having a puppy without an outside space, how will she toilet train him/her for example? Are there any Kennel Club guidelines you could refer to as your criteria is not dissimilar to most animal welfare charity guidelines so I imagine that legally that would be beneficial to your pov. I would try and get something official, quote it and say it's an animal welfare issue, animals are soon to be sentient beings by law and not commodities therefore you withhold the right to choose homes on a welfare basis as a priority.

The puppy is legally your property so your perfectly within the law to refuse and refund her, also what is she going to do, hire a lawyer just after her divorce when she lives in a small flat, she won’t have the money to do that. She’s just trying to scare you. Don’t give her the puppy, I see dogs all the time that aren’t taken care of properly.

No you are right. It is crawl to have a dog of that size in a flat. As others have said send her a cheque. She hasn’t a leg to stand on anyway as you have explained why the home is unsuitable and wanted to return her deposit. Stupid woman.

You should be commended for being such a conscientious breeder, I wish there were more like you. YANBU at all.

YANBU. You sound like an extremely responsible breeder and you have your rules and this lady is now no longer suitable. Send a cheque for the deposit to the address she's given you by guaranteed next day delivery alongside an email stating this is what you have done and outlining your reasons why. She cannot force you to sell her a pup and, if she is a responsible person she wouldn't want a puppy - especially an unhouse trained one - stuck in a flat . I know some people manage quite well with a large dog in a flat but this your pup and your rules For future reference draw up a contract stating no flats.

Not a binding contract. Send the cheque.

We have a four year old retriever and we have been up seven times for the last two nights with her. Like having a human baby! Yes, hard work in the beginning especially as she's our first dog but so so worth it. I would love another one as she would be an excellent mummy figure but my cat who is sat in my foot would not be happy. Putting the cat first.

Also, gorgeous photo.

I must be in the minority because while I do think you are being responsible in checking out the buyers home etc, are you sure she won’t be able to care for this puppy like anyone else? I live in a flat, in London with a working dog and so do many of my friends.

it’s extremely green where I live, we have 4 parks within 5-10 minutes waking distance and I go on jogs and long walks with her everyday. She was an adult rescue dog and wasn’t toilet trained so that part was a bit of a nightmare but we managed. It really depends on the person, you can’t really judge this woman’s dog rearing skills for living in a flat.