To refuse to sell this lady a puppy?

[ensete]

I have a litter of working golden retrievers, i collated a waiting list before I had our bitch mated and I spent a long time speaking to interested parties to find the best homes I could do - this is how I have dealt with previous litters.
Both parents are working gundogs and I stated that whilst I didn't need working homes I would only consider active homes with the space to accommodate a large working breed.
One of the families who is on my list contacted me today just to say "hi, my husband and I have decided to split up, I will still be wanting the puppy but my address will now by Flat4a XYZ Town"
I messaged back to enquire what sort of set up it was and she confirmed it's a flat on the top floor with no garden or outside space. I've confirmed with her that I'm not happy to sell a puppy to a home without any outside space and I will refund her deposit immediately and advertise the puppy. She's refusing to give me her bank details and says she wants the pup and will take legal action if required. My argument is that the home I vetted is no longer the home she's offering and therefore I'm not willing to sell her the puppy. To me, changing the home on offer isn't dissimilar to her changing the amount of money she is willing to pay for the pup. The homes I find for puppies are very important to me, I'm not a big breeder, I've just had a litter for my own purposes to keep the next generation and I need to know my puppies are going to the right sort of home.

You’re right to not let her have a puppy

You’re unreasonable for breeding dogs that are surplus to requirements, for financial gain and then dressing it up as a love for the breed and responsible ownership.
If you are selling the puppies at cost then I would probably bite my tongue - but I would guess you’re making a tidy profit from it

We were vetted for about a year . The welfare of the puppy was paramount and I was under no illusion if I said the wrong thing or our circumstances had changed then I would lose the puppy . We have an active working door breed - he is exercised for hours Each day & spends quite a bit of the rest of the time in our decent sized garden . We are right next to lots of open space. .He is outside now just pottering around as it gets dark . No outside space doesn’t sound like it will work for your breed . She needs to think again. Has she signed a contract yet ? Our contract was really detailed and stipulated all sorts ( it was bit OTT but we went with it). Good luck .

Just to clarify it depends on the breed - I was thinking border collie. A friend had two lovely spaniels in a top floor flat and they are absolutely fine.

People threaten to sue/take legal action - A hollow threat. Lovely that you are so attached to the puppies that it would break your heart for them to go a less than perfect home.

Aww, that photo is so cute. I can't imagine a golden in a flat with an owner who works full time. We had one when I was a child and he was the most chilled, agreeable, eager to please dog that I've ever known and even he needed massive amounts of walking and playing in the garden, especially when he was a 'teen'.

YANBU. You sound very responsible. They are lucky pups.....so many people don't put the pups first.

@Crazycatlady83

I don't disagree with your reasoning and I doubt she will decide to try to enforce the contract but if she does, I do think you might have difficulty.

Implied terms can be imposed into a contract by either common law or statute. Not just on the say so of one party to the contract. So you cannot say it was implied into the contract that her residing at a particular location was necessary for completion of the contract (because such a term does not exist in common law or statute)

You might be able to claim that the contract is "frustrated" because her address is radically different to that which was anticipated by you. But ultimately thats for a Judge to decide. The onus would be on you to prove.

All in all, I think it has to be a lesson that if you are going to sell animals, you need to have a contract and set down exactly what you expect.

All in all, I think it has to be a lesson that if you are going to sell animals, you need to have a contract and set down exactly what you expect.

OP stated I stated that whilst I didn't need working homes I would only consider active homes with the space to accommodate a large working breed

Surely this fulfils the requirements ?

*@booksandnooks - Just because our parents are shte dog owners it doesn't mean that someone who cages a large, energetic, sociable intelligent dog for 10 hours a day is a good one just because they get a dog-walker in for an hour.

You’re unreasonable for breeding dogs that are surplus to requirements, for financial gain and then dressing it up as a love for the breed and responsible ownership.
If you are selling the puppies at cost then I would probably bite my tongue - but I would guess you’re making a tidy profit from it

On the contrary - the more decent breeders there are the better. If people are going to have dogs, they should have healthy ones. PLUS - if you raise a litter properly there isn't a massive amount of profit in it (or wasn't before lockdown).

OP says she takes her dogs back for purchase price at any time during their lives if the buyers can't manage/change their mind - that is what ALL breeders should do. There wouldn't be a BY left in the country if this became a legal requirement.

Aww, I feel sorry for her though. People's circumstances can and do just change, and the thought of her new pup probably kept her going during a tough time.
There's no guarantee with any new owner, and at least she has been honest. I'm sure she's capable of providing a loving home for your pup. However I totally understand that you are being a responsible breeder, and I wish they were all more like you!
I just feel bad for her.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

No because there is no written contract stating that. As I previously stated under contract law in the UK you cannot imply terms that are not implied by common law or statute. Just because she said she wanted a working home, it wasn't written down so cannot be "implied" into the contract. That's the point of a written contract. It gives the parties a firm outline of what is required of them. Without it, she just agreed to sell a dog to someone for a price.

Sorry "active" home

[quote Crazycatlady83]@SchadenfreudePersonified

No because there is no written contract stating that. As I previously stated under contract law in the UK you cannot imply terms that are not implied by common law or statute. Just because she said she wanted a working home, it wasn't written down so cannot be "implied" into the contract. That's the point of a written contract. It gives the parties a firm outline of what is required of them. Without it, she just agreed to sell a dog to someone for a price. [/quote]
What's her loss though if the deposit is refunded? She's hardly going to apply for injunctive relief!

@nowlook

This isn't a monetary contract. The loss is the animal that she contracted to buy. The buyer could ask for the contract to be carried out and the seller provide the animal that she has contracted to sell. This is what usually happens when the contract provides for something unique.

That's why, if you want to impose specific conditions in a contract, you write them down. It's a lesson that people making a bit of money on the side, or whatever the motivation for the OP is, they are not beyond the law and should cover themselves if they want to do "business" in a particular way.

But let's face it, the buyer is unlikely to do this because it will be a massive hassle!

No way! You are absolutely doing the right and responsible thing. She’s clearly got a screw loose. That is not the right type of home for an active dog. Although my bet is that she’s planning on selling it for a profit.
Send a cheque back to her. If she chooses not to cash it, tough. She has no legal claim on the puppy. He’s chipped and registered to you. Please do not entertain the idea of letting him go to someone like this.

That's the point @Crazycatlady83 . Specific performance is a form of injunctive relief. A discretionary remedy. Once OP has sold the pup on to a bona fide purchaser, it won't be granted. It would cost far too much, the flat-living-lady would need to act right now and I just can't see a judge agreeing that damages would not be an adequate remedy here (based on my experience anyway).

& again whilst we have the debate about legality of sale - I very much doubt she would be LEGALLY allowed to keep dog in flat & god help her neighbours & RSPCA would surely be able to give witness or an affidavit that it would be cruel to sell to someone in this situation

@nowlook

But she hasn't sold the dog on to someone else (she says she intends to sell it on to someone else) Presumably at 5 weeks they won't be leaving the mum for at least 3.

I'm pointing out that everyone saying that she is doing the right thing, are actually wrong in law. All this talk about "doing the right thing" by refusing sale, "implied terms" isn't correct.

Who knows what the buyer might do - she might be a lawyer who would be very comfortable going to court. She might be bonkers and pursue this through the courts herself / with legal advice. Honestly stranger things have happened!

But none of that matters. The OP is the seller, agreed to sell goods (because animals are seen as goods) and has now reneged on the contract. Her reasons aren't relevant and her arguments about why she is right don't matter. Trying to make things fit / justify what is a very simple contract for sale because you want it doesn't work!

Maybe if we stop seeing animals as goods that can be contracted for money, all animals would be better off. Maybe if people want to sell animals for money they should be more careful about the law and agreements they are entering into by make conditions in contracts legally enforceable. Animal welfare would benefit hugely.

Good on you!

Send a cheque! She can't take legal action. Would be too costly.

Good to see a responsible breeder x

I'm just giving my view on the likely outcome @Crazycatlady83. I haven't litigated for an age though (I have my own little firm these days and the insurance for that element is too much!).

I don't think we know anywhere enough about the terms of the contract/any misreps to say whether OP is in breach.

There do seem to be lots of puppy threads these days.

Why would she give you nee address?

@Barbitchurate

OP clearly stated I'm not a big breeder, I've just had a litter for my own purposes to keep the next generation

Very shitty time to breed a litter given all the lockdown issues - and it's very shitty to rehome any dog without doing thorough home checks which it doesn't sound like the OP has done.

What lockdown issues? You can meet in your home with masks on just like the supermarket. Washing of hands before and after handling.

And how is it shitty of the OP she did do the checks but the not new owner changed that and @ensete would of noticed when she was doing the contracts etc and dropping off.

Yup new owners can slip through the cracks but most give themselves away before getting the pups well for me they do.

@ensete

Photo of golden nuggets in garden today. It's difficult to get a photo at the moment because they are FLAT OUT shuffle mode. They have lovely crinkly noses and puppy breath.

Omg 🥰🥰🥰🥰

@nowlook

Sorry Nowlook, I don't mean to come across snippy but I just wish people who breed animals would think about the consequences of what they are doing. They are selling "goods" (because in the U.K. animals are seen as goods) for money and therefore are "in business". People in business should know the consequences of their actions.

If they want to be responsible, the first thing they should do is ensure any conditions they put on the sale is enforceable. If not, they are really opening up these poor animals to cruelty.

With higher demand and higher prices due to lockdown, its very worrying that people "dabble" and then fall foul when problems such as this arises.

oh my... they are stunning 🌸💕

YANBU, not in the slightest.

When I became a separated mum (my young kids with me half the time), I decided I would like a dog and I decided to go for a dog that needed rehoming. But I was sensible enough myself to knew it must be a right "match" for us.

When I called the rescue centre they asked me loads of questions and were strict about their requirements - how old my kids were (4 and 7), was my house rented (yes - so they required a letter of consent from my landlord), did I work and if so how many hours (3 hours per day), did I have a garden and was it enclosed all the way around with a minimum height fence, did I have any other pets etc.

They also said that before they would rehome a dog with me a full inspection of my garden would be required.

I was thoroughly impressed by this and not put off at all; I was delighted that they cared about the animals in their care hence the robust process.

I ended up with the most wonderful elderly Irish Terrier. She had been in kennels for six months because she couldn't be rehomed with other pets but mainly because she was old. She was about 8 when she came to me.

I had her for six wonderful years until last year when she passed away peacefully at home. I miss her terribly.

You are doing the right thing by ensuring as much as you can that your puppies will be going to suitable homes.