You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

Palestine has not always been the 'underdog' in this. - since 1948 Palestinians have been the underdog, not saying not blameless. Surrounding Arab countries sometimes took advantage of Palestinians too.

Good article www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lliana-bird/why-im-proisraeli-and-pro-palestinian_b_5592220.html

Because the ultimate goal is to state “turn your energy elsewhere this is never ending and your contribution won’t lead to anything helpful

Oh that is definitely not what I mean, I can see how it sounds that way though and I understand that's upsetting

I think you're right that it's far more realistic to try to contain the violence so that at least it is not so horrific, even if we cannot solve the entire conflict itself

Unfortunately I think Israel does not care about any pressure except from the US, so the only way things will improve is if things change in US political calculations.

@Zotter - I have already regretted phrasing it like that! My point was, as you say, Palestine has always had its supporters who have helped keep the conflict deadly.

But, as I said to OP when I first posted, I had hoped the whole post made my perspective clear when snippets did not!

I am British and live in the Middle East. I grew up with the typical pro Israel narrative from the world's media and even in my education.

Then I visited Palestine and my god seeing for myself how the Palestinians are treated by the Israelis and what they go through every day was life changing. I was horrified at how blind I'd been to what was really happening.

I walked behind an Israeli family in Jerusalem as they shouted abuse at the Palestinian shopkeepers. They did this with their young children with them: breeding more hatred. It was absolutely chilling.

This current situation is typical of Ramadan. It happens every year; the Israelis persecute the Palestinians during the Holy Month. It is getting a lot more coverage this year with the Sheikh Jarrah piece.

I am glad that it is now being more widely shared and discussed (social media is helping this to come to the fore) but I feel desperately sad that this will never be resolved.

As I left Palestine the Israelis held me at the airport and deleted images from my camera of the wall, checkpoints, their young soldiers (before the days of iphones) they do not want the world to know what is really happening. It is our duty to keep sharing.

I wanted to add that not being bale to criticise the govt may add fuel to the fire for those that may be harbouring anti-semitic views. So wouldn't it be in the interest of everyone if we can debate out in the open without the fear of being muted, shadow banned, blocked or deleted?

Exactly ! How many youths and those emotionally volatile have have their logic hijacked by people that seek to polarise and say “look they don’t care for Palestinian kids being murdered so we neee to take matters in our own hands”?! And often times that’s in the hands of heedless angry vengeful people who have no sense of consequences and right and wrong?!

Shouldn’t those who have maturity and mental stability be opening up debate on human rights violations so the emotionally affected and repressed can find some validation and support and be less subject to grooming ?!

When human rights are violated , humanity needs to unite. Because basic morals are common to every geographic region, religion and ethnicity ...

We can have differences on historic narratives on whose religion says what about who owns what land.. but we shouldn’t be disagreeing on basic morals.. that’s not right

So wouldn't it be in the interest of everyone if we can debate out in the open without the fear of being muted, shadow banned, blocked or deleted?

Yes you're right, there is literally nothing posted about Israel/Palestine here or anywhere else, ever. Sinister if anything.

@soberfabulous

I am British and live in the Middle East. I grew up with the typical pro Israel narrative from the world's media and even in my education.

Then I visited Palestine and my god seeing for myself how the Palestinians are treated by the Israelis and what they go through every day was life changing. I was horrified at how blind I'd been to what was really happening.

I walked behind an Israeli family in Jerusalem as they shouted abuse at the Palestinian shopkeepers. They did this with their young children with them: breeding more hatred. It was absolutely chilling.

This current situation is typical of Ramadan. It happens every year; the Israelis persecute the Palestinians during the Holy Month. It is getting a lot more coverage this year with the Sheikh Jarrah piece.

I am glad that it is now being more widely shared and discussed (social media is helping this to come to the fore) but I feel desperately sad that this will never be resolved.

As I left Palestine the Israelis held me at the airport and deleted images from my camera of the wall, checkpoints, their young soldiers (before the days of iphones) they do not want the world to know what is really happening. It is our duty to keep sharing.

I'm sorry you had to witness that

That's because the idea that Jews are wealthy and influential and control everything is as old as the hills, as are disingenuous denials of expressions of it, like this one.
So just to clarify, it would be acceptable for me to state that other global issues get preferential coverage based on the networks of those involved? It would be acceptable for me to say that certain stories get buried or given minimal coverage based on lobbying and the internal networks between politicians, governments, celebrities and the media?
But it's an absolute no go to suggest that a developed nation that has strong political ties to powerful western nations might also benefit from similar arrangements?

It's quite a worrying situation when people are being policed in their discussions about the actions of a government and international relations because it suits some people to confuse criticising a government and questioning international relations with racism.

People can, and do, criticise lobbying and agendas within the UK. It's accepted that criticising governments and questioning power relationships of the UK government is not hating on British people. It's quite open that there's links between many media outlets, lobby groups and government figures. Discussing that is not hating on British people.

It seems like the default position of some is:

1. Read criticism of the Israeli state or questions about power and international relations
2. Declare people are antisemitic to try and close down the discussion
3. When people ask why Israel as a state should be immune from the same scrutiny as any other state, and their leaders should be immune from the same questioning as any other public figure, claim people are disingenuous (whilst usually avoiding giving the actual answer as to why one government should be given a free pass)

Governments are public figures who should be open to scrutiny. Media outlets are powerful and it is right that people should be able to discuss their coverage. Some of us think that includes all governments, media outlets and issues. Others seem to think that some issues and governments should be immune from public scrutiny.

@Faffandahalf

I’m not shutting anything down. Indisagree with your word choice. I wasn’t shooting you down either. I’m commenting on your post.

Poster above says Palestine does not exist on a map. Should it not exist on a map then?
Who decides on what goes on Maps?
Colonisers. In the history of the world it is colonisers who create maps. Pretty sure the Native American maps if they ever had any would have looked a lot different to what was created by the colonisers there.

Palestinian throwing stones cannot match the force of the Israel occupying forces. The idea that the two reactions are in any way equal is farcical.
Yes Palestinians commit violent acts. When you are an oppressed minority with no help from the outside world you don’t have much choice

Absolutely agree with everything here.... absolutely appalling what is and has been going on for years! I was just talking to my teen about it this evening

Why is no one saying anything? Because if you mention it everything gets shut down
Killing children is fucking appalling

@soberfabulous

I am British and live in the Middle East. I grew up with the typical pro Israel narrative from the world's media and even in my education.

Then I visited Palestine and my god seeing for myself how the Palestinians are treated by the Israelis and what they go through every day was life changing. I was horrified at how blind I'd been to what was really happening.

I walked behind an Israeli family in Jerusalem as they shouted abuse at the Palestinian shopkeepers. They did this with their young children with them: breeding more hatred. It was absolutely chilling.

This current situation is typical of Ramadan. It happens every year; the Israelis persecute the Palestinians during the Holy Month. It is getting a lot more coverage this year with the Sheikh Jarrah piece.

I am glad that it is now being more widely shared and discussed (social media is helping this to come to the fore) but I feel desperately sad that this will never be resolved.

As I left Palestine the Israelis held me at the airport and deleted images from my camera of the wall, checkpoints, their young soldiers (before the days of iphones) they do not want the world to know what is really happening. It is our duty to keep sharing.

Thank you for sharing this... it's actually unbelievable that more of the west don't know what the hell is going on out there

It's up to you what you post, and MN decide what they want to delete. That's the reality of it.

Today, on BBC, scroll way down the news topics to read this about our army (of which I am in general very proud)?
www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56986784

There are bad things happening all over the world the whole time. Thankfully these days, with social media, there is a great chance to bring these things on people's radar. But they continue to happen.

@piddocktrumperiness, I'm glad you mentioned Palestinian Christians, many of whom live in the Sheikh Jerrah and Wadi Al-Joz area and attend St George's Cathedral.

We have a friend whose wife worked for the UN. She was posted to Jerusalem on a mission. They are Muslim so were living in the Arab side. Unfortunately during their time there, a period of unrest broke out. Our friend was walking down the street with his ds and gunfire broke out. An Israeli sniper was shooting at civilians, including my friend and his son. He had to shelter in a shop door, doing his best to protect his ds. His ds was four. Four.

My sister lives in Jerusalem. She and her young kids had to hide in their bathroom earlier this week while Hamas rockets were fired at the city. Both sided are culpable.

Happy to be corrected - Arab countries like Saudi are the richest in the world but Palestinians who are also Arab are left in refugee camps, imv, to continue to maintain the Israel conflict. Why don't rich aArab countries sort out the difficult lives that Palestinians have to live. Put the Pal people first .
They prefer to see them miserable.
If Arabs won't help them the Palestinians should be working towards a truce and move on.

Quincie
Like you I'm happy to be corrected, but some of those countries also have a vested interest in political alliances and arrangements with the West, and the governments of the West seem to be pro-Israeli state. There have been some links between various governments in the middle East funding a range of groups via the back door, which is a whole other murky arena. The House of Islam is quite an interesting read if it interests you.

It's likely to be that world leaders pay more attention to how they/their supporters gain and maintain money and power than it is about the suffering of civilians.

Yes the Arab govt's should do more- but many govt's are selfish and are corrupt puppet governments and monarchs put in by the West who frankly do not care enough at policy making level. They have their own problems to deal with too. Do not get me started on Saudi Arabia- the biggest exporter of terrorism who also are never held accountable for the shit they put everyone else through. But money money money- it talks.

Also it is not only the Arabs responsibility here seeing as we the British had a heeeuge role in this palaver from the very beginning.

We should not be deflecting here. That's like saying someone has stolen my car, and my neighbour saying "don't worry I'll give you a lift to work"

Ok, but what about my car? what about the thief? Are they going to get away with it?

If Arabs won't help them the Palestinians should be working towards a truce and move on.

How is this language helpful to contain the violence happening right now ? And theft of lands??

It sounds quite othering.

Can you provide your opinion on what the other side of the conflict “should do and move on?”

Israel has the highest vaccination rates in the world. Only in March did they decide that they should perhaps think about vaccinating Palestinians - the Palestinians who come into Israel to work.
That’s all you need to know to understand how the Israeli state feels about the Palestinians.

It’s a fair point about Arab countries not looking after Palestinian refugees as Muslim countries such as Turkey and Egypt have been sympathetic to Syrian refugees. However this doesn’t make an excuse for the Israelis.

@piddocktrumperiness

Thank you for your posts - you are making excellent points. I wish more people understood how appallingly the Palestinians have been treated over the past 100 years by the British, the Zionists, the Americans, by Israeli governments, by Islamists (who have hijacked their cause) and other Arab governments (who highlight their plight but then do nothing to help).

I also wish more people knew of the terrorism carried out by the Zionists against Britain when they wanted Britain to give up the mandate, including the murder of 91 in Jerusalem by bombing the King David hotel in 1946. So the Palestinians are not the only ones to resort to terrorism to further their cause. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

And yes to the Saudis - and I’m very fearful for the implications of Mohammad Bin Salman - a dangerous era lies ahead I think.

The USA is the most powerful country in the world. There are many more Jews in the US than Palestinians and they fund Israel (happy to be corrected) so for the sake of the future of young Palestinians the Palestinians need to be pragmatic and accept the situation. Possibly they would given the chance but whilst Saudi is funding Hamas to keep things going that can't happen, but it is at the expense of Palestinian lives.
This would not be right or fair but Palestinians deserve decent lives somewhere else.

I'm not sure if the value of posting here OP.

If you're concerned about injustice and military, then where you can make a difference is here at home, where you can vote. We don't have a great record in the middle east either, most recently Iraq ...

@Quincie surely by that standard if they wanted to the 422 million Arabs or nearly 2 billion Muslims around the world could provide far more funding than the 12 million Jews in the entire world.

Worth a read www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/british-army-simon-akam/618015/