You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

The Israeli modus operandi seems like rile the Palestinians up, wait for them to react and then take some land as a punishment and repeat

Interesting perspective. Residents of East Jerusalem said they were given warnings of evacuations around May and August.

That also coincides with Ramadan and the end of the Hajj season/beginning of Muharram which in when the al Aqsa is flooded with worshippers.

Sounds like someone is engineering to benefit from clashes while the media is focused on being confused painting it as a helpless repetitive clash between Hamas and Israel.

I’m getting my attention ready for End of July. Hajj and the second Eid is a big deal and many will be praying at the mosque and it’s a perfect opportunity to cook up more land grabbing

@Cacacoisfarraige

The Israeli modus operandi seems like rile the Palestinians up, wait for them to react and then take some land as a punishment and repeat

Absolutely agree with this. The initial crisis was the situation in Sheikh Jarrah which is nothing to do with Hamas and was entirely about Palestinians thrown out of their homes and Jews taking them and the escalation to Israeli soldiers attacking civilians and most horrifying attacking Al Aqsa mosque Almost like they knew such action would result in Palestinian outrage and retaliation

Netanyahu is a fanatical despot

I have a parent that worked for the UN. We visited a Palestinian refugee camp it was horrific. The people who have been displaced and treated so badly and yet most of the world doesn’t care.

It’s scary if we can’t talk about the conflict. Why is this?

As I prepare for Eid tomorrow, hanging decorations with my kids, wrapping presents and preparing a feast for my whole family in the freedom of this country I was lucky enough to be born in I wonder how we would all react if we were in Palestinian shoes this evening.
There may never be an end or a solution but simply saying this and shaking our heads and wringing our hands is not good enough when the world knows Israel is breaking international law and continues to displace and oppress Palestinian people. This isn’t an opinion it’s fact. They’ve said their intention is to continue to build more settlements. This can only happen through the continued displacement (ethnic cleansing) of Palestinians.
Forget everything else but that much is not remotely in question and yet people still have the nerve to come on here and say I Stand with Israel.

@ghostyslovesheets

Jesus this discussion will never change until it’s basically acknowledged that bombing other countries is a shitty thing to do - and start there

You can go back centuries picking out who threw the first stone but that solves nothing

It take both sides to want it to stop and to want to start from scratch rather than revisit old wounds repeatedly - like they did in South Africa

It’s so easy to see things as good guys and supervillain’s but it’s just not the case - just as in Northern Ireland- the left especially held the IRA as super hero freedom fighters - and it helped no one

People are suffering on both sides - saying it’s okay to bomb some children because they have shelters and they started it - come on!

Spot on. Both sides need to want to stop. They need a proper peace agreement.
Some children have a dome and shelters but killing them is no less disgusting than killing children without a dome and shelters. If less was spent on missiles/guns/bombs from both sides then the standard of living for everyone would be better. Both sides need to admit to mistakes and talk to each other.
We are part of the problem when we blame one side or the other which most seem to do on here and doing that does no-one any favours.

The Israeli modus operandi seems like rile the Palestinians up, wait for them to react and then take some land as a punishment and repeat

Netanyahu is a fascist, murderer of innocents, supporter of genocide and clearly does not even follow his own faith:

It is better and more satisfactory to acquit a thousand guilty persons than to put a single innocent one to death

He hasn't even found 1000 guilty persons but has set about the massacre of the innocents.

I'm with you op. This isn't a clash between two equal parties, this is a super power using disproportionate measures to perform ethnic cleansing. I suggest people should look up that term and not be blinded by biased media and crocodile tears coming from one side and if you do, I truly hope you and your children won't ever have to defend for your most basic human rights and your home with sticks and stones against phosphorus bombs they used last time. Shame on you, shame on humanity who thinks this is ok.

I hope you have a lovely Eid Faffandahalf, and all others celebrating.

@Imonlyhumanafterall2021

It's not 'guff' about the land being Holy .... the Jews have considered Jerusalem holy for thousands of years, the Christians considered it Holy for 2000 years and the Muslims considered the area Holy for just over 650 years or so.....

Not the religion justifies everything again. There are obviously many on this thread who know the politics first hand , but... do try looking up the term 'peleset', and considering the length of history involved and large numbers of diverse religious groups in this region. Please don't try to use history to justify atrocities to Europeans either.

Imonlyhumanafterall2021

But here I am, telling you that yes Hamas should be held accountable for any transgression against international law and should be called out for it.

Yes please bring external law enforcement to tell Hamas when they’re committing war crimes.

So now it’s between me and you.

Are you saying that your narrative of history, and painting both sides with the same brush, means that Israel is now immune from being held accountable Infront of international law?

And therefore, the clashes in East Jerusalem, who were not with Hamas but were with complete civilians.. are these not breaches with international law?

Leave Gaza out , East Jerusalem is not under Hamas.. so there is no two sides to this. There is one side and one side only in this story.

In this specific example, should we not hold Israel accountable for allowing soldiers to protect trespassers and land grabbers??

the world knows Israel is breaking international law and continues to displace and oppress Palestinian people. This isn’t an opinion it’s fact

They’ve said their intention is to continue to build more settlements. This can only happen through the continued displacement (ethnic cleansing) of Palestinians

Forget everything else but that much is not remotely in question and yet people still have the nerve to come on here and say I Stand with Israel

Totally agree.
On a research visit I saw the seemingly endless settlements being built, heard of the plans to build more, listened with disgust to the people with American accents planning to move into them! Yes, American citizens claiming yet another place as their home (and stuff everybody else whose home it actually was).

There isn't much holy about this land now.

I don't think that The situation will never be resolved because the heart of the conflict is religious.

There's a lot of about Israel that should be defended by the west, it is the only democracy in the Middle East, the only Middle Eastern country that has lgbt rights. Its existence is under threat the official hamas charter calls for the destruction of the state.

It's encroached into occupied territories completely against international law, and Gaza and the West Bank is essentially a prison for its inhabitants.

Under those conditions it's no wonder there is an armed resistance- but who puts down their guns first ? The Israeli government has a responsibility to protect it's citizens

The Israeli government has a responsibility to protect it's citizens

Just the Jewish ones? Or the Muslim ones too?

And the Orthodox Christians and The Christians and those of no defined religion

I don't think that The situation will never be resolved because the heart of the conflict is religious.

That’s an illusion designed to dampen the efforts of the international community.

War crimes are not a religious issue. Breaking international law is an ethical issue. Most humans can condemn that and the world can put a stop to this if it wants to

Watching the news and seeing the skies lit up with Hamas rockets and many falling short over Gaza. Hamas says it has fired more than 1,000 rockets at Israel with the bombardment continuing today - while Israel has carried out dozens of missile strikes of its own. Slightly more than throwing sticks and stones! A synagogue and some 30 vehicles on fire. That is not ok.

Israel launched massive bombardments. Hamas confirmed that several of its top commanders were killed in air strikes on the Gaza Strip today. Innocent civilians are being killed. That is not ok.

None of these deaths of innocents ON EITHER SIDE is ok.

Imonlyhumanafterall202

Ok glad we agree that war crimes are not ok. Regardless of whatever reason.

But the question was about the unprovoked expulsion of civilians in East Jerusalem, which the news said sparked this conflict. That’s against international law. Is that ok?

Or do we only talk about things that can be diluted by dividing blame ?

@Warsawa31

Yes there is a lot of Pinkwashing there. You cannot say you support LGBTQ+ but then see it completely ok to displace Palestinians, not allow those in the diaspora the right to return, not allow them access to land etc.
How does that help queer Palestinians?

Supporting LGBTQ+ does not automatically make you 'progressive' or 'developed'. You cannot pick and choose rights. Human rights are human rights.

As for being the only democracy, yes it is. No surprises there since other countries have had puppets placed by the west, or have been bombed to smithereens.

I uphold the Israeli govt to higher standards than that.

Imonlyhumanafterall202

Ok glad we agree that war crimes are not ok. Regardless of whatever reason

But the question was about the unprovoked expulsion of civilians in East Jerusalem, which the news said sparked this conflict. That’s against international law. Is that ok?

Or do we only talk about things that can be diluted by dividing blame?

Exactly

@DeepThinkingGirl I was a young 20 year old girl in the car when I was assuulted by a couple of lads from East Jerusalem. I was alone in the car, and I was just waiting for the traffic light (not in East Jerusalem, but nearby). Thank God someone else pulled over and got involved.
I was 22 years old - again alone in the car - when a group of children from East Jerusalem threw rocks into my window and broke it in pieces. They could have killed me.
But I suppose these things are ok in your book, right? It's ok for 2 men to attack a single young girl in her vehicle because they feel opressed by the actions of the Government?
You cannot advocate for the rights of people in East Jerusalem as long as they attack Jews living nearby, and teach their own children that its ok to throw rocks. I have done absolutely nothing to these people, and anyone who tries to attack me should be prosecuted - regardless of their heritage / religion / postcode. And unfortunately you have lots of young men in East Jerusalem who behave that way.

There are many similar articles on this theme of Pinkwashing;

Over the past decade, Palestinian queer feminist activism has increased public awareness of Israel’s use of “pinkwashing” in its desperate attempt to fight the growing Palestinian-led Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement(link is external). Pinkwashing is a deliberate strategy used by Israel’s government, agencies, and the Israeli LGBT community to exploit Israel's relatively progressive stance on gay rights, and to deflect international attention from its gross violations of human rights and international law. Israel's cynical use of gay rights aims to obfuscate the reality of occupation and apartheid. Queer BDS activists have therefore urged international queer groups to engage in solidarity actions with all Palestinians, and not confine their solidarity to Palestinian queers. In other words, Palestinian queer feminist activism, which views human rights in a holistic way, calls for and mobilizes active global solidarity around Palestine in general, through the lens of queer activism in the context of Israel/Palestine.

With regard to pinkwashing, Palestinian queer activism is invested in PinkWatching efforts to debunk Israel’s pinkwashing propaganda. Israel’s use of pinkwashing, among other whitewashing strategies, attempts to divert global attention from maintaining its oppressive regime of occupation, colonization and apartheid against Palestinians. Pinkwashing portrays a democratic, liberal and gay-friendly image of Israel, supported by its relatively gay-friendly laws. As a counterpoint to this idyllic picture of Israel, the pinkwashing campaign also aims to paint a racist and false image of the monolithically homophobic, backward and barbaric Arab/Palestinian.

One of the techniques Israel uses in its pinkwashing campaigns1 is to fabricate myths about “saving” Palestinian queers from their homophobic and oppressive families and communities by bringing them to live in Tel Aviv – the ultimate gay haven. Tel Aviv may be a gay heaven for Jewish Israeli citizens, or even for the hundreds of visitors who engage in gay tourism. However, it is neither friendly nor a haven for Palestinian LGBTs and queers.

"But the question was about the unprovoked expulsion of civilians in East Jerusalem, which the news said sparked this conflict. "

Not according to another news source which suggests a different reason for this latest violence which occurred prior to the expulsion of civilians:

"The fighting between Israel and Hamas was triggered by days of escalating clashes between Palestinians and Israeli police at a holy hilltop compound in East Jerusalem.
The site is revered by both Muslims, who call it the Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary), and Jews, for whom it is known as the Temple Mount. Hamas demanded Israel remove police from there and the nearby predominantly Arab district of Sheikh Jarrah, where Palestinian families face eviction by Jewish settlers. Hamas launched rockets when its ultimatum went unheeded.
Palestinian anger had already been stoked by weeks of rising tension in East Jerusalem, inflamed by a series of confrontations with police since the start of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan in mid-April.
It was further fuelled by the threatened eviction of Palestinian families from their homes in East Jerusalem by Jewish settlers and Israel's annual celebration of its capture of East Jerusalem in the 1967 Middle East war, known as Jerusalem Day."

Different news outlets all report different causes of the latest violence. Therein lies the problem different views of why this happens over and over. Hence both sides need to sit down and have a proper peace agreement and both sides stick to it or be held accountable. No one wins the way it carries on and the blaming of one side versus the other which is the way things have gone on for years and years.

Acidburn this sadly could happen anywhere in the world, and in many places in the UK and N Ireland - it's wrong.

However, it doesn't justify forcibly removing whole households from their homes and taking their land.

@Acidburn

Of course these things that happened to you are bad, but it is simply ridiculous to denigrate an entire community by two personal experiences.

Sadly this is a typical Israeli tactic - deflect from the macro argument by telling stories of micro aggressions. For every story of a Jewish person being persecuted by Palestinians, there will be multiple stories of Palestinians being persecuted by the Israeli government.

Compare the statistics of Palestinian lives lost compared to Israeli Jews. They are quite stark.

On June 30 198, thirty-nine countries signed a joint pledge to identify art stolen from Holocaust victims and to compensate their heirs. Nearly every European country - in addition to the United States, Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Russia and Israel - signed the agreement. Soon after, an Austrian advisory panel recommended the return of 6,292 art objects to their legal owners, most of whom were Jews

Great, and just. Could the same cooperation and sense of justice be harnessed to retrieve the land stolen from Palestinians by the Israeli Government..