Bullying and mumsnet

[hattiecattie]

I'm a long time lurker since I had my DD 8 years ago. I have noticed since the first day I joined mumsnet that there is a huge bullying culture here that takes place. I have witnessed so many pile ons happen to desperate people asking for help. Even if you don't agree with someone, there's no need to be cruel.

I wonder if there's a way that MNHQ can challenge this? Shut down bullying on this site as soon as it occurs.

I agree, I've had some wonderful advice and support over the years but its can be particularly nasty depending on what has been posted. I find the covid furum venomous especially if you have a different point of view.

@BIWI

Yes I have reported them.

Its not the point sadly. I know and everyone else is probably aware, that this site won't do anything fundamental about it (banning etc) .

They might remove a post here and then, but by then it's been visible for ages.

I was immediately banned once for pointing out why, and the advertising business model behind having a forum with a reputation for verbal fighting and insults.

I don't want to risk being banned again by sharing that view - although I probably have now, so take care all it's been fun etc!

Whether it could be labelled as bullying or not, the tone in some sections is often unpleasant and, as a PP said, we don’t have to be all huns, kisses, and #bekind, but being a complete c**t is better avoided surely. Plus it’s often less about disagreeing, saying YABU, but how it’s phrased. Years ago I was recently bereaved and in an awkward situation regarding council tax on their property, and although I can understand why people thought I was BU, the way I was ripped to shreds was awful. It was like death by a thousand cuts, but all totally acceptable here it seems as it’s labelled as “robust”. Only 1 person acknowledged the death of my parent and was able to disagree with me without being really nasty, or passive aggressive, and unfortunately that’s as rare as hens’ teeth on here.

There is a big difference between bullying and then everyone telling the OP she is wrong

Also many people (certain generations especially) just don't seem equipped to handle criticism in any way shape or form. Therefore honest straight to the point advice telling them they are wrong is construed as being aggressive and bullying 🤷‍♀️

I also think a lot of MN users goad women going through difficult times in their relationships to LTB far too freely. Some, as with domestic abuse, absolutely should have the LTB label, but other stuff can be worked out through counselling or just openly talking to each other about issues. Pushing someone to split up a family on the flimsiest of things is wrong, and has huge consequences to that person.

@opentheclose

Biwi I agree (I sometimes worry that MNHQ roll their eyes to the ceiling when I report!) but the problem is when people post in such a way that doesn’t really break guidelines but is awful just the same.

It’s like the subtle bullying some of us experienced at school. Horrible.

You can still report that though - if someone consistently posts in the same way, MNHQ can build a picture about them and they will then deal with them. I'm fairly sure they have a OTW list! (One to Watch).

And they will and do delete posts that are 'not in the spirit'. So if in doubt, report!

@Sparklingbrook

"Are you sniffing glue?" "ODFOD" "You need to drive straight to a psychiatrist"

All of those would be deleted if reported.

Which goes back to my original question does everyone want this site fully moderated like other sites?

Under another username, someone said the last one to me over the weekend and also called me all sorts of other things, basically because I’m not sure if I can have children and I’m upset about it. They just wrote a post that felt more like a character assassination, there was no advice, it was a “you are nasty piece of work and you are x, y, z.”. I’ve read back and read back my original reply to the thread which prompted this horrible reply and I really can’t see how it’s remotely deserved or justified. I reported it to MN and it’s never been acknowledged and it’s still there despite another poster also picking up on it and commenting how awful it was. I feel quite shaken. I didn’t pick on anyone. And then someone just attacked me and told me I needed a psychiatrist.

I’ve also, many times, reported bullying and really quite disgusting comments. They are always allowed to stand. Spam however is miraculously zapped in seconds. I’ve seen some of the ones mentioned above ie RainbowBaby and the poster who sadly lost her brother after the Covid vaccine. MN don’t do much about bullying.

@HopingForOurRainbowBaby Your experience is a very sad one, and I’m very sorry for your loss. By sharing it though, you may have caused the original poster to get checked out after her fall, or your experience may have caused other posters to remember it if something similar happened to them down the line. You were absolutely right(and very brave) to give the advice you did.
@TheVanguardSix That must have been so devastating for you, especially as your loss was so recent. May your dear brother Rest In Peace.

I dont think its bullying as its not a sustained harrassment of one person, but I do think toxic pile-ons are frequent and unkind. people digging for more information they can use against the OP.
You could see it as peoples arse getting handed to them, but I think it crosses into trolling far too much.
I say that, but I dont want the site to be overly moderated either. The report function is really good and mumsnet are quick to check and delete things that cross the line, and people do keep coming back for more, so.......

I know though, after several years here, that there are things that I just could not post for advice on, that I wish I could, because I couldnt handle my life picked apart or the character assasination that could potentially ensue.

I am not sure its any different on any other large message boards either though. Ive been on a few over the years, and the ones that are too nice and supportive get boring too, so part of what I dislike about mumsnet is also what keeps people coming back

I was immediately banned once for pointing out why, and the advertising business model behind having a forum with a reputation for verbal fighting and insults

@Ginuwine, the thought also crossed my mind. I suspect it's financially in MN's interests to let the forum have the tone it does, which is why it doesn't seem to be trying to rectify it.

@opentheclose that's so true personally I have be terrified of covid when a family member died, hated lockdown, anxious about vaccine, desperate to see family abroad etc. 😆

I was Googling an issue yesterday and ended up on a MN thread from 2004.

The tone was markedly different. People only replied if they had something of value to say to OP. Nobody was cheeky, nobody pulled everything apart looking for holes in the story, nobody criticised spelling or grammar, nobody detailed the thread making it all about them with some incredibly tenuous link to the OP's issue. It was generally a much more civilised place.

I get the impression these days that a lot of people use MN (particularly AIBU) as an outlet for their frustration and just behave horribly towards others. I don't think a lot of these posters would dare to behave that way in real life.

Also many people (certain generations especially) just don't seem equipped to handle criticism in any way shape or form.

That's interesting, what generations would those be?

branleuse absolutely agree with your comment about being reluctant to post for advice on some issues on here. I’ve had situations where I would love to get advice on a situation, but would be very reluctant to do so on here. Which is a shame.

Actually sod it I might as well -

AIBU's moderation is probably directly related to its advertising business model

AIBU is probably the one part of the Mumsnet site that gets the most eyeballs.

For those who post, it's fun to challenge the views of others.

For those who lurk or watch, it's perhaps a spectator sport seeing the insults and verbiage flying back and forth.

Eyeballs on posts directly translates to advertising revenue. Hence why you get all the pop up videos on AIBU, the inline ads etc. People want to pay money to get in front of the vipers.

And a lot of us vipers (according to the numerous salary threads) are ABC1 to use the old social grading, and many are A and B.

A heavily moderated site would remove the fun for a lot of people. No more "handing someone's arse to them on a plate". No more tearing down an OP's premise or ripping apart their spelling.

That would lead to fewer eyeballs on posts, people will go elsewhere. Which won't do for ad revenue.

In terms of regular posters, I would wager they get an easier ride too to some degree.

If 40% of your posts come from 10% of your users, then you want those people kept onside because they keep the debate going.

@andivfmakes3

There is a big difference between bullying and then everyone telling the OP she is wrong

Also many people (certain generations especially) just don't seem equipped to handle criticism in any way shape or form. Therefore honest straight to the point advice telling them they are wrong is construed as being aggressive and bullying 🤷‍♀️

Yes it’s like at work isn’t it?

“Your performance isn’t really acceptable and I’m afraid we are going to put you on a support plan to monitor your performance’ is not bullying.

‘Your performance has been appalling and frankly I don’t know why you’re in this role as you are shit at it.’ is, I would say.

It’s a bit irritating the way some on this thread are making out we are sensitive flowers who can’t bear YABU.

It’s fine to say ‘YABU, try and chill a bit.’

Saying ‘YABU. Your poor kids. You sound awful’ is. Obviously depends on context but it isn’t on to rip someone’s character to bits.

I posted here some time ago under a different account. The thread turned nasty against me and I was called names. I was pregnant at the time and I asked Mumsnet to take it down as it was affecting me mentally.

They refused. I don’t get why.

I deleted my account and stayed away for a while then but returned when I had a parenting question.

@Livelovebehappy what about posting on another board? I personally have had some good advice.

[quote wotchhha]@Livelovebehappy what about posting on another board? I personally have had some good advice. [/quote]
But people shouldn't be hounded off MN because of bullying surely?

Has anyone told you about transference? As I said someone once told me 90% of the population has issues of various types that could be helped with mental health intervention, maybe some know this about themselves and tell others to do it, a bit like that Prince who hasn't changed his lifestyle and tells us all to save the earth.

I feel quite shaken. I didn’t pick on anyone. And then someone just attacked me and told me I needed a psychiatrist.

BTW children are lovely, when they leave home and you have your life back to yourself that's lovely too, seasons in life end.

@FlangeModerator

I posted here some time ago under a different account. The thread turned nasty against me and I was called names. I was pregnant at the time and I asked Mumsnet to take it down as it was affecting me mentally.

They refused. I don’t get why.

I deleted my account and stayed away for a while then but returned when I had a parenting question.

That sounds awful sorry to hear that.

The problem as ever is in how other user's bad behaviour will be turned against an OP.

@RockingMyFiftiesNot I meant another board on MNs

I think the AIBU mentality has seeped into most places, unfortunately.

@FlangeModerator

I posted here some time ago under a different account. The thread turned nasty against me and I was called names. I was pregnant at the time and I asked Mumsnet to take it down as it was affecting me mentally.

They refused. I don’t get why.

I deleted my account and stayed away for a while then but returned when I had a parenting question.

Ha posted too soon!

What I was going to say is, sadly there's an easy catchphrase that stops people from having their threads deleted.

It usually goes like this:

• An OP comes on with a sensitive emotional dilemna
• Some cruel folk sense the vulnerability and decide to get personal "you sound like a bad mum" etc
• OP feels distressed and wants the thread to stop and posts such
• Folk respond by saying "just because you're getting your arse handed to you on a plate and people disagree you want it deleted?!"

So you can't ever win @FlangeModerator

Meanwhile I think Mumsnet probably don't want to delete 500+ post threads due to the ad revenue / time on site thing. So deleting individual posts is probably more preferable than deleting a whole thread

@wotchhha ah sorry, I misunderstood, my mistake.

But even then, people shouldn't have to avoid parts of MN either. Even AIBU - I'd say don't open a thread if you're not prepared for people to not agree with you in a very direct way. But AIBU or COVID topics shouldn't be places only to post if you can cope with bullying.