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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is modern life 'worth it'?

332 replies

MrsTroutfire · 09/05/2021 20:18

Obviously, not an entirely 'serious' question as I doubt many people would want to live in the conditions our predecessors did 200 years ago with limited healthcare etc, and it's not likely that society will change anytime soon anyhow.

However, I drive a lot for my job and have a lot of time to endlessly ruminate over the universe. One thing that I always return to is the fact that as a society we work the majority of hours in a day, the majority of days in a week, the majority of weeks in a year, and the majority of years in our lives.

Then, in our mid/late 60s, with our youth decades behind us, we then finally get the freedom to spend our days as we wish, finances and health allowing. If you're male, the likelihood is that you'll probably have worked for over 40 years without a single month away from your work environment, as most people only get a few weeks leave each year and paternity leave still isn't really very common.

I'm pretty sure this was never planned and just evolved that way, but when you look around your place of work and think "this is the majority of my life" it's not a great thought!

Of course life was much tougher in previous centuries, but people were mainly trying to survive. Nowadays it seems like the main purpose of work is churning profit. Even with financial difficulties abound I don't know many people who literally have to worry about survival.

So I sometimes wonder what we actually spend our entire lives working for. No doubt, the machine would stop turning if a huge proportion of the population ceased to make and spend money, but in some ways it seems the system runs us nowadays rather than the reverse, in the sense that money was originally created as an alternative to barter, but is now the principle determinant of quality of life (health issues aside). For example, food may be plentiful, even going to waste, but that's no longer the issue as you'll still starve without the money to buy it (whilst I still appreciate that there has to be some alternative to bartering/swapping of physical goods and a currency is necessary).

It seems like we create new unnecessary technologies, and in turn a market which needs workers to populate it, and this keeps future generations in employment, but at the cost of moving ever further away from subsistence.

Of course people don't want to give up their OLED TV's, iPhones, game consoles, foreign holidays etc, and I don't either tbh. But then a part of me reflects that most people just seem happy to 'play the game' and are so involved in the various aspects of their lives that they don't consider that the biggest sacrifice most of us make is spending the vast majority of our life doing something that we don't really want to and which isn't ultimately necessary for survival in the truest sense.

I'm defo waffling now, but I'd love to be able to contrast our society against a parallel one where our focus has been on prioritising the bare essentials such as food and healthcare etc and people spend a much bigger percentage of their lives actually living them rather than sitting at a desk. Of course they wouldn't have all the gadgets and toys we have but they wouldn't know any different - hell, perhaps in a hundred years time when teleportation has become a thing, people will wonder how we stayed sane only leaving our country 1-2 times a year rather than daily!

OP posts:
KisstheTeapot14 · 11/05/2021 18:04

I have thought this since my 20s.

It does feel like factory farming, and are the things dangled to placate us really gold - or just glittery?

Worked mostly part time apart from a stint of 10 years full time before I had DS. I knew I wanted to save and buy a property as I hated renting by then.

May have to do another stint of full time in my 50's to try to create enough money in the pot for older age. Wasn't career driven.

We have a minimal lifestyle (no iphone for me, second hand cars, hols in this country and a flat that needs decorating), but have managed to buy 2 small properties with mine and DH's money (he has had various full and part time roles) and a lump sum from his mum.

Not gloating - just, it is possible - you have to decide what is important for you and put the money there.

I wouldn't trade my £6 Giff Gaff phone bill per month for a £40 plus iphone habit for example. Its just another addiction, we get used to having these luxuries.

I'm been very happy with the choices I have made so far - and had a good balanced life. Able to spend time with DS and enjoy him growing up, and going to our allotment, or just reading in the park on a sunny day.

Life's not a bed of roses as DS has some disabilities and I do too but I feel like I have been lucky in my jobs and in where I live. And having a DH contributing - going solo on a ptime salary would have been pretty much impossible.

godmum56 · 11/05/2021 18:05

@SleepingStandingUp

I'd love to be able to contrast our society against a parallel one where our focus has been on prioritising the bare essentials such as food and healthcare etc and people spend a much bigger percentage of their lives actually living them rather than sitting at a desk I'm not sure it would look markedly different for most people without going back significantly. So you prioritise essentials and healthcare. You still need farmers, food manufacturers, and all factories, transport etc that goes into that. Still need doctors and nurses etc. Need people flying planes, running hotels, museums, bars etc. Cleaners and police and lawyers. People would still be money focused because that pays for leisure.

Or you go back to living off the land. Everyone has a patch of land and becomes self sufficient Inc trading goods not money. But you still want our level of healthcare so you still need the educational set up to make nurses and doctors etc. So would they be paid well for their jobs whilst most people just live a subsidence lifestyle? That doesn't bode well for leisure time and world travel. You'd still want law and order so you'd still need the legal system from PCSO to Judges and magistrates. You'd still have politics because well, that's unavoidable
So you just need up with a divide between those paid well to work off the land who have little free time and those working the land who have no free money

yup, nailed it...and unless you have got storage facilities, you can only trade what is local and in season which sounds very "green" until everybody has only got turnips! Even if you don't want planes and hotels, you still will need teachers, vets, engineers and those people won't have time to grow their own food or anywhere to store it so oh I know....we will give them promises that they can claim against future harvests....we'd better write the promises down....and oh look we have invented money. I see tech as a great leveller. its easier now to change bank accounts, negotiate better deals with untilities, generally make our voices heard. i do think that expectations are different....but I have no idea how to change that if folk don't want to.
toocoldforsno · 11/05/2021 18:06

For those saying "modern life is not worth it"....what do you want to swap to? Because all I'm seeing suggested is just a variant of modern life.
How about you tell us which period of time before "modern" you think that you would be happier and more fulfilled in?

DynamoKev · 11/05/2021 18:09

@Chickencrossing

I do envy people who find jobs they can enjoy, afford a little bit more than bare minimum bills and have social purpose. What are these jobs?!
Me too.
notalwaysalondoner · 11/05/2021 18:23

On the mental health point, I had an eye opening conversation with colleagues in Kenya who were just fascinated by the mental health crisis in the UK, and who commented how incredibly rare suicide is in Kenya. Obviously there's an element of it which is taboo potentially, but I did think it was fascinating how in a country with such dire poverty, mental health was on average better.
I've had a theory for a while now that the fewer 'real' crises you have in your life like we would have in the past or third world e.g. death of a child or young close family member, serious illness, living below the (real) poverty line, the more your brain compensates by creating anxiety and depression around non-events.

TheLastLotus · 11/05/2021 18:25

@toocoldforsnob I’m not sure whether OP means modern as in ‘as opposed to the Great Before’ or modern as in ‘our current way of life’.

I agree that we can do ‘better’ but there’s no period of time where this better has existed. As a human it’s honestly luck whether your interests are valued and make money so you’ll have to find a way to be happy with your lot.

Someone who loves farming for instance would obviously survive in our self-sufficient utopia - but what about someone who’s a skilled musician? And we can only support 3 musicians but there are 20.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 11/05/2021 18:35

I wouldn't go back one day.
.
My grandmother's both died young (one in childbirth in her 20s), so I never met them. My grandparents all came from large families with limited resources. Some children survived, some didn't. The level of affluence, security and luxury that we in western countries enjoy is something to be treasured.

Anyone who thinks they would be happier in a cottage living off the land, with or without 12 children, should try it. Nothing is stopping you. Although you may not survive winter and the hungry gap.

InkyPinkyP0nky · 11/05/2021 18:41

@TheYearOfSmallThings

The thing stopping many people from trying is the money required to buy a cottage with land, which is very expensive— particularly with the current rush to the countryside.

Rayn · 11/05/2021 18:45

Fab topic.
Capitalism and materialism. We spend as advertisers convince us we need something.

We are bombarded everywhere with advertising.

Watching the minimalist doc on Netflix was an eye opener. We don't need all the stuff we have but we work hard to make sure we have it.
I would prefer less stuff and more time.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 11/05/2021 18:53

The thing stopping many people from trying is the money required to buy a cottage with land, which is very expensive— particularly with the current rush to the countryside.

If you can afford a house which is requiring two salaries to run, you can afford a better cottage than most people could in the past. Yes it might be damp, cold and the land might not be great, but all of those things are fully authentic if you want to reject the privileges of modern life.

Of course if you really want to have the best of both worlds and retain all the comfort and security while living a modern fantasy of rural bliss, that might be more expensive.

Nightbear · 11/05/2021 18:54

Leisure for the working class and retirement are relatively modern inventions. People worked from being children until they physically couldn’t work anymore and then starved or relied on charity. Perhaps what we have now is the luxury of knowing that we (some people at least) could choose to opt out of working full time and still survive if we lived very simply.

thecatsthecats · 11/05/2021 19:02

[quote TheLastLotus]@toocoldforsnob I’m not sure whether OP means modern as in ‘as opposed to the Great Before’ or modern as in ‘our current way of life’.

I agree that we can do ‘better’ but there’s no period of time where this better has existed. As a human it’s honestly luck whether your interests are valued and make money so you’ll have to find a way to be happy with your lot.

Someone who loves farming for instance would obviously survive in our self-sufficient utopia - but what about someone who’s a skilled musician? And we can only support 3 musicians but there are 20.[/quote]
Ah, but then that's assuming that you're monetising musical skill.

I'm a medium singer by talent, but I enjoy it a LOT. And oral storytelling had a rich social function back in pre-literate societies.

As a writer, I cram in my hobby around a stressful life, and the chances of success are tiny. And don't get me started on the music industry... But creativity has an end in itself - the enjoyment of creation and performance.

Manzanilla55 · 11/05/2021 19:09

I think modern living is very stressful and work driven. Also the cost of living for many is rather high. Perhaps the best solution is to have either no children or one child only. To keep our expenses to an absolute minimum so we aren't in the money trap too much and also to have very cheap affordable hobbies and interests. I always prioritise health care ie vitamins and supplements and at age 57 really feel keeping rubbish eating to a minimum is one of the best things we can do for our health not least so we can keep on working until we drop. Many of us will have to!

osbertthesyrianhamster · 11/05/2021 19:24

@TheYearOfSmallThings

I wouldn't go back one day. . My grandmother's both died young (one in childbirth in her 20s), so I never met them. My grandparents all came from large families with limited resources. Some children survived, some didn't. The level of affluence, security and luxury that we in western countries enjoy is something to be treasured.

Anyone who thinks they would be happier in a cottage living off the land, with or without 12 children, should try it. Nothing is stopping you. Although you may not survive winter and the hungry gap.

100% spot on!
lljkk · 11/05/2021 19:26

Deluded imho to think there was a marvelous past.
Read Her People or accounts of the Kent Hop Pickers & tell us again how much better their lives were in 1920s or 50s.

TheLastLotus · 11/05/2021 19:35

@thecatsthecats that wasn’t my point.
The point was that every person’s utopia may be another person’s nightmare.
If we were in a self-sufficient society that assumes that everyone has to be able to do the things that enable you to be self-sufficient, like farming. While some people may hate it. In the third world country where I come from lots of people live off the land. It’s back breaking work. There are only a few designated musicians /storytellers/whatever’s. You don’t get a lot of free time to sit around being artistic at your leisure unless you’re one of them.

There’s ALWAYS a balance obviously - working 70 hours a week is crazy, working an hour probably less. In my field talent is hard to find so lots of people happily work 3/4 days a week on a full time wage. It actually works out in the employers’ favour because a skilled person can get work done in triple amount time of a junior and avoid costly mistakes down the line. But if you’re on minimum wage or a ‘generic’ job then you don’t have the luxury.

My point is the more uniform a society the harder it is for people who don’t fit in or are at the bottom of the food chain. So anyone able to dream of an idyllic utopia is themselves privileged. The moment everyone started doing that divisions would emerge as pp have mentioned and the ones at the bottom would be stuck with the shitwork. And in most of these idylls shitwork often falls to women!

AndromedaGal · 11/05/2021 19:41

God we’ve got it good. The past for the poorer people (& not that long ago) meant workhouses, terrible slums, starvation, high rates of infant mortality, no healthcare system, social injustice, no protection for lowly paid workers who would be expected to put their noses to the grindstone from childhood until they became infirm. And then they died, most usually paupers & in terrible agony.

Fuck that shit I’m staying in the present

godmum56 · 11/05/2021 19:48

@Rayn

Fab topic. Capitalism and materialism. We spend as advertisers convince us we need something.

We are bombarded everywhere with advertising.

Watching the minimalist doc on Netflix was an eye opener. We don't need all the stuff we have but we work hard to make sure we have it.
I would prefer less stuff and more time.

you can have it...shopping less is a choice that is within your control
TinyGlassOwl · 11/05/2021 20:14

Literally no one on this thread has said there was a 'marvellous past'.

No one is harking back to some mythical utopia.

The OP is simply asking whether the way we live now - so many of us working long hours in unfulfilling jobs for material gain far beyond what we objectively 'need'- is actually all it's cracked up to be. No one is denying we're better off than paupers in a workhouse Hmm

I do find it interesting how so many people don't ever appear to want to question the status quo at all, though.

MyOctopusFeature · 11/05/2021 20:29

@TinyGlassOwl

Absolutely. Spot on! We are better with less. Not with 'nothing'.

But heigh ho, that is the polarisation of folk these days. For or against, end of....

Ticklemycarpets · 11/05/2021 20:52

@TinyGlassOwl
Exactly. There is a difference between not signing up to a culture of consumerism, and living as we did in the past.

TheLastLotus · 11/05/2021 20:58

@TinyGlassOwl but most people aren’t working loads just to buy the latest handbag.
Lots of people who earn lots thanks to skill in niche areas choose to work 3/4 day weeks or have v flexible schedules.
Those who work all hours have no choice.
So the question isn’t about why we as a society choose to work long hours - but how we distribute wealth in a ‘fair’ way. Because without all these seemingly ‘useless’ jobs half the population would be unemployed. And our base assumption has always been ‘money in exchange for work’.
Paying people more so that one person can stay home ( thereby reducing the working population) could be one solution

TinyGlassOwl · 11/05/2021 21:03

Sigh. I didn't mention handbags.

MrsTroutfireVII · 11/05/2021 21:20

@TheYearOfSmallThings

I wouldn't go back one day. . My grandmother's both died young (one in childbirth in her 20s), so I never met them. My grandparents all came from large families with limited resources. Some children survived, some didn't. The level of affluence, security and luxury that we in western countries enjoy is something to be treasured.

Anyone who thinks they would be happier in a cottage living off the land, with or without 12 children, should try it. Nothing is stopping you. Although you may not survive winter and the hungry gap.

But as I keep saying, it's not about 'going back' so much as wondering whether what we have currently is the best.

A totally random example would be whether some people would find it preferable to only work two days a week but forego having a car and only holiday every other year rather than twice a year?

LovelyIssues · 11/05/2021 21:20

@ssd totally agree. We enjoyed the simpler times of Covid and felt like we "found orussl again" baking together, bike ridss... Nothing to compare to on social media because we were all in the same boat, doing nothing.

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