Is modern life 'worth it'?

[MrsTroutfire]

Obviously, not an entirely 'serious' question as I doubt many people would want to live in the conditions our predecessors did 200 years ago with limited healthcare etc, and it's not likely that society will change anytime soon anyhow.

However, I drive a lot for my job and have a lot of time to endlessly ruminate over the universe. One thing that I always return to is the fact that as a society we work the majority of hours in a day, the majority of days in a week, the majority of weeks in a year, and the majority of years in our lives.

Then, in our mid/late 60s, with our youth decades behind us, we then finally get the freedom to spend our days as we wish, finances and health allowing. If you're male, the likelihood is that you'll probably have worked for over 40 years without a single month away from your work environment, as most people only get a few weeks leave each year and paternity leave still isn't really very common.

I'm pretty sure this was never planned and just evolved that way, but when you look around your place of work and think "this is the majority of my life" it's not a great thought!

Of course life was much tougher in previous centuries, but people were mainly trying to survive. Nowadays it seems like the main purpose of work is churning profit. Even with financial difficulties abound I don't know many people who literally have to worry about survival.

So I sometimes wonder what we actually spend our entire lives working for. No doubt, the machine would stop turning if a huge proportion of the population ceased to make and spend money, but in some ways it seems the system runs us nowadays rather than the reverse, in the sense that money was originally created as an alternative to barter, but is now the principle determinant of quality of life (health issues aside). For example, food may be plentiful, even going to waste, but that's no longer the issue as you'll still starve without the money to buy it (whilst I still appreciate that there has to be some alternative to bartering/swapping of physical goods and a currency is necessary).

It seems like we create new unnecessary technologies, and in turn a market which needs workers to populate it, and this keeps future generations in employment, but at the cost of moving ever further away from subsistence.

Of course people don't want to give up their OLED TV's, iPhones, game consoles, foreign holidays etc, and I don't either tbh. But then a part of me reflects that most people just seem happy to 'play the game' and are so involved in the various aspects of their lives that they don't consider that the biggest sacrifice most of us make is spending the vast majority of our life doing something that we don't really want to and which isn't ultimately necessary for survival in the truest sense.

I'm defo waffling now, but I'd love to be able to contrast our society against a parallel one where our focus has been on prioritising the bare essentials such as food and healthcare etc and people spend a much bigger percentage of their lives actually living them rather than sitting at a desk. Of course they wouldn't have all the gadgets and toys we have but they wouldn't know any different - hell, perhaps in a hundred years time when teleportation has become a thing, people will wonder how we stayed sane only leaving our country 1-2 times a year rather than daily!

I agree with you.

I had a conversation with my Dad a few months ago about society and mental illness. I posed the question - are more people mentally ill these days or is it just that it's talked about more? Probably a mixture of both. I think our society breeds poor mental health. we work all the time, constantly compete and compare ourselves on social media, always want the latest gadget or handbag. It's all so meaningless. Doesn't help when we're constantly bombarded with negative/scaremongering media too.

I think I'd be a lot happier being closer to nature - living in a cottage somewhere remote with lots of animals, growing my own food.

But that will never happen!

Yanbu....work is the bane of my life but obviously money is useful so needs must.

I work 20 hours a week, 40 weeks a year but then I don't have an iphone

I think the pandemic made a lot if people question what we're doing. When everything was shut, life was more basic, and that wasnt necessarily a bad thing. I think the constant consumption needs to slow down, both for the environment and our mental health.

Yanbu... At the moment I am fortunate to be able to save around half my paycheck, and even though I would like children I am considering not having any so I can drop to part time hours, safe in the knowledge I can still support myself, and just save a little bit instead of a lot. I'm on annual leave at the moment and feel real dread about going back.

I think about this all the time. The thought i will finally get “freedom” when i’m in my 60s when my health will be starting to decline is quite depressing.

If i could, i would live in a little cottage in the country, spending lots of time outdoors and with the people i love. Unfortunately the way life is set up at the moment means we work non stop and are grateful for the 25 or so days annual leave we get IN A YEAR.

I suppose i could choose to give it all up and live a simpler life, but who am i kidding...

I really like my life, whether I’m just part of “the machine” or not. And on balance, I don’t think there are many societies at all which aren’t characterised by most people having to do stuff they might not really want to do a lot of the time and pushing through trying to get by; unless you view less developed societies through the entirely outdated construct of the noble savage.

See I see this the other way round: I would argue that this is all the more reason for people to get jobs they enjoy. Yes we can tweak our own lives to some extent to derive some work/life balance but only so much: and the more you try to reduce work the more you depend on a partner/the state or limit your own earning power.

If you want autonomy over your finances and unless you've inherited a shit ton of money, you have to work.

I think women in particular would benefit from focusing as much as possible on finding jobs that they get satisfaction from as opposed to finding ways to avoid doing less work. But I'm a workaholic, so my views probably aren't representative...

I'm in the process of decluttering with the intention of living a more minimal life. I've never been career minded, always preferring to clock off and forget about work at the end of the day. Much of what others consider essential, I don't. I always felt out of step with my peers because my life goal was to create a home and a family, that's it. I considered the rest to be stuff we do to pass the time and unimportant. I once read a quote from the Dalai Lama which said roughly we give up our health to spend our lives chasing money which we then use to make life easier for our failing health. That summed up modern life for me.

I agree.

It only surprises me that you are presenting this as something people may not have considered. I'm 55 and have had this on my mind for the past 40 years.

I will have to work till I'm 70 at least. That will be 49 years of full time work - not counting university. I had an average of three months' maternity leave for each of five children. DH will probably have to work till 70 too, and he's been working full time since 17.

We have a very average life, but as time goes on the cost of living rises. The biggest factor is the cost of housing, and there seems to be no political will to take the heat out of the housing market, eg by providing plenty of stable low cost rental housing so that there is a good alternative to buying.

As more services are privatised, their cost goes up, eg gas, water, electricity, school meals.

We are being farmed.

I'd love to be able to contrast our society against a parallel one where our focus has been on prioritising the bare essentials such as food and healthcare etc and people spend a much bigger percentage of their lives actually living them rather than sitting at a desk
I'm not sure it would look markedly different for most people without going back significantly.
So you prioritise essentials and healthcare. You still need farmers, food manufacturers, and all factories, transport etc that goes into that. Still need doctors and nurses etc. Need people flying planes, running hotels, museums, bars etc. Cleaners and police and lawyers. People would still be money focused because that pays for leisure.

Or you go back to living off the land. Everyone has a patch of land and becomes self sufficient Inc trading goods not money. But you still want our level of healthcare so you still need the educational set up to make nurses and doctors etc. So would they be paid well for their jobs whilst most people just live a subsidence lifestyle? That doesn't bode well for leisure time and world travel. You'd still want law and order so you'd still need the legal system from PCSO to Judges and magistrates. You'd still have politics because well, that's unavoidable
So you just need up with a divide between those paid well to work off the land who have little free time and those working the land who have no free money

I totally hear everything you’re mulling and don’t disagree. However, having said that, we’ve still potentially got it so much better than generations before us. At least life expectancy has gone up so that we can hope for a couple of decades after retirement. In 1950 for instance, retirement age was 65 which was the same age as average life expectancy!!

Society goes in cycles. For a century there has been a demographic movement to towns, and of course, contraception reduced family size. People find themselves in a family unit with no extended family support locally by virtue of having moved away or no backup siblings to call favours from.

Perhaps with WFH now in vogue, people can move back to their hometowns where a larger sense of community may remain.

The thing I find quite "mad", is the retirement surge to the seaside. Why would you leave your community at the time of life where your health is going to decline and within a couple of years you'll likely have a limiting disability or be housebound, with no friends or clubs. People need to make that jump in their 50's when they are still fit and able to independently socialise and build a support network.

YANBU

I have actually come to the conclusion that education is a crock. It is all focused on getting people into the system, focusing a huge amount on a broad education that is largely useless to the individual. We only need as many nurses, doctors etc as there are people. Most people - myself included - only serve the leisure needs of other people, rather than the material needs of humans.

Physically labouring is better for you mentally, and keeps you healthier too.

Which is not to say I don't value knowledge - but there's only a small amount of people who need to do research and development etc. I have an instinct that more people would actually be happier learning excellent and thorough literacy, and a single trade by which they could earn money. It seems to me that all these H&S and human rights we have aren't actually net improving people's lives (in the first or third world - obesity in the former vs slavery in the latter).

I have similar rants in my head about creativity vs consumption. I think that it's creativity that actually satisfies us rather than mindlessly purchasing or absorbing what's presented to us.

Essentially I'd like to run a smallholding with a craft studio/writers study, and that'd do me fine.

(I'm acutely aware of my work-life issues at the moment given that I'm signed off with work-induced anxiety!)

@thepeopleversuswork

See I see this the other way round: I would argue that this is all the more reason for people to get jobs they enjoy. Yes we can tweak our own lives to some extent to derive some work/life balance but only so much: and the more you try to reduce work the more you depend on a partner/the state or limit your own earning power.

If you want autonomy over your finances and unless you've inherited a shit ton of money, you have to work.

I think women in particular would benefit from focusing as much as possible on finding jobs that they get satisfaction from as opposed to finding ways to avoid doing less work. But I'm a workaholic, so my views probably aren't representative...

^ This.

I don’t think life has ever been easy for the majority, in any time period, although I agree at the moment our level of consumption is unsustainable and we create a cycle of wanting/discarding that is unhealthy. But at least most people get to enjoy retirement - no such thing 200 years ago, or even 100 years ago. Life is much easier now.

Agree also with @thepeopleversuswork that finding a job you can enjoy is important. I don’t find work to be a hideous drag on my time, even though I work full time and have a toddler, because it is enjoyable, fulfilling and interesting work that pays well (IMO, it suits my needs and level of outgoings - many on MN would not consider it to be well paid).

Have to admit, I love my job (which is socially valuable for the most part) and think that making a wider contribution to society is a good thing both in itself and for one's mental health/sense of purpose.

However, clearly there is a problem with a lot of workplace cultures and conditions, particularly in terms of their effect on low-paid/insecure workers. We should do much more to combat this.

I find the idea of working long hours in a job you don't particularly enjoy to afford a high-status lifestyle a bit depressing, but if people want to do this that is their decision.

I've had similar ponderings OP. A five day week all year round is pretty onerous. Four days of work and three days of weekend would be a much better balance.

In many areas it takes two working adults to fund a household now. When I grew up a lot of households had a non-working or part-time working person. On a standard week, my parents as a couple spent five days at work and had nine days for leisure/child-rearing/life admin. The balance for me and my husband is 19 days of work (sometimes more) and four days for the other stuff. It's no wonder we struggle to stay on top of the weeding and house jobs.

Aside from improved female rights, I think there is way more technology than there are human problems to solve. I'm not saying technology isnt a force for good, but there is a lot of capitalised tech that is used to sell and consume at business and consumer level... rather than solve actual issues (carbon friendly lifestyles and eco value chains for larger populations, so much inequality). Anyway it makes work very meaningless and removed from physical realities of our surroundings.

I'd love to be self subsistent and closer to nature but again, who am I kidding?! We are in the 4th or 5th industrial revolution or whatnots, not an agrarian economy.
Have 2 kids to put through education first.

I used to want a small holding eco village till I realised it was bloody hard growing food and if I cannot keep my houseplants alive what hope is there for growinv my own foid!

I think that is such an interesting post. I have given it quite a lot of thought as well. But more in the sense that life is a mystery and we are spinning through the universe experiencing amazing forces of nature. And while on the one hand their are people dedicating their lives to deciphering what it all means the majority seems to focus on the constant overwhelming amount of media fed global 'news,' stories, paying bills and surrounding themselves with the latest gadgets. Chasing designer brands or bigger and faster cars accumulating wealth for the sake of being wealthy. I realise that finding a purpose in life is a rather scary thought so it seems to me people fill their lives with work, children, pets, and all the 'stuff' we just 'MUST HAVE' the continuous, new tech-models released so that the question of what their individual purpose is fades into the background as there is a constant series of distractions for people to indulge in. People are made to feel like being being busy and constantly informed about global issues we can do very little about is a good thing. However I would call this 'information overload' and is leading to more mental health issues in younger and younger children. Their form of 'information overload' is not global 'news' stories but social media ones of 'youtube' stars, 17 and driving sports cars round their back garden as if this could be their reality. I realise perhaps I have gone a little off on a tagent as your post has to do with how far removed we are from physical-survival however with all this reliance on technology and constant unquestionable focus on 'work' I think our mental health is now seriously at risk of survival. This is something that society has done to itself and is continuing to do. How the world will look in generations to come is quite a scary thought as it seems reliance on innate, natural and biological human behaviours perhaps the true human-essence is being lost...

A friend made a good point....technology is supposed to make our lives easier and free up leisure time...so why arent we working less?

It’s definitely worth it for me. I love tech advances and I’m excited for the future. I would probably top myself I was born 200 years ago in the prejudiced mess of society at the time

I get 5 hours every evening to do whatever I want.
I get 2 full days at the weekend.
I get 8 additional days of fixed bank holidays per year.
I get 25 days a year whenever I want them.

I didn’t start working permanently until I was 21 (though I worked loads as a student!) and I’ll stop by 65, so 44 years from expected 82.

I’m not saying I’d say no to more time off 🙂 but it doesn’t feel as dire a picture as you paint.

I do envy people who find jobs they can enjoy, afford a little bit more than bare minimum bills and have social purpose. What are these jobs?!

I don’t feel like this but I have a job I really enjoy