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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is modern life 'worth it'?

332 replies

MrsTroutfire · 09/05/2021 20:18

Obviously, not an entirely 'serious' question as I doubt many people would want to live in the conditions our predecessors did 200 years ago with limited healthcare etc, and it's not likely that society will change anytime soon anyhow.

However, I drive a lot for my job and have a lot of time to endlessly ruminate over the universe. One thing that I always return to is the fact that as a society we work the majority of hours in a day, the majority of days in a week, the majority of weeks in a year, and the majority of years in our lives.

Then, in our mid/late 60s, with our youth decades behind us, we then finally get the freedom to spend our days as we wish, finances and health allowing. If you're male, the likelihood is that you'll probably have worked for over 40 years without a single month away from your work environment, as most people only get a few weeks leave each year and paternity leave still isn't really very common.

I'm pretty sure this was never planned and just evolved that way, but when you look around your place of work and think "this is the majority of my life" it's not a great thought!

Of course life was much tougher in previous centuries, but people were mainly trying to survive. Nowadays it seems like the main purpose of work is churning profit. Even with financial difficulties abound I don't know many people who literally have to worry about survival.

So I sometimes wonder what we actually spend our entire lives working for. No doubt, the machine would stop turning if a huge proportion of the population ceased to make and spend money, but in some ways it seems the system runs us nowadays rather than the reverse, in the sense that money was originally created as an alternative to barter, but is now the principle determinant of quality of life (health issues aside). For example, food may be plentiful, even going to waste, but that's no longer the issue as you'll still starve without the money to buy it (whilst I still appreciate that there has to be some alternative to bartering/swapping of physical goods and a currency is necessary).

It seems like we create new unnecessary technologies, and in turn a market which needs workers to populate it, and this keeps future generations in employment, but at the cost of moving ever further away from subsistence.

Of course people don't want to give up their OLED TV's, iPhones, game consoles, foreign holidays etc, and I don't either tbh. But then a part of me reflects that most people just seem happy to 'play the game' and are so involved in the various aspects of their lives that they don't consider that the biggest sacrifice most of us make is spending the vast majority of our life doing something that we don't really want to and which isn't ultimately necessary for survival in the truest sense.

I'm defo waffling now, but I'd love to be able to contrast our society against a parallel one where our focus has been on prioritising the bare essentials such as food and healthcare etc and people spend a much bigger percentage of their lives actually living them rather than sitting at a desk. Of course they wouldn't have all the gadgets and toys we have but they wouldn't know any different - hell, perhaps in a hundred years time when teleportation has become a thing, people will wonder how we stayed sane only leaving our country 1-2 times a year rather than daily!

OP posts:
Alondra · 10/05/2021 14:11

The point is @Alondra that for many people (?mainly women, not sure tbh) those higher standards of living, washing machines, dishwashers, foreign holidays etc have not made people happier.

How do you know current standard of living have not made people happier? Because we want more? Because we want work less while maintaining the same/increasing living standards?

What about the black people in our communities? Are they looking back thinking life was grand 50 or 30 years ago? What about the disabled? Single mothers? Homosexuals?

I'm sorry but this whole thread is a "poor me" white middle class whinge.

DoAsYouWouldBeMumBy · 10/05/2021 14:12

I didn't start a proper job until I was 28 (until then I was studying and "working" abroad in various countries). I had a year off for DC and have been part time since my mid-30s. I now work part time term time only, and made the move to a small, affordable house by the sea yonks ago. I don't have pots of money or a fancy house but I work in the public sector and have a full life that feels like more than being part of the machine. Most people have some sort of choice - don't work full time to buy iPads and Chanel bags if you don't want to. If you need to work a lot of hours just to put food on the table then that's another matter and it's how life always was, not modern life.

OrribleIstories · 10/05/2021 14:13

YANBU.

There is another way, but the powers that be don't want that for us.

Read The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists.

TinyGlassOwl · 10/05/2021 14:15

I'm sorry but this whole thread is a "poor me" white middle class whinge

Ok, I'm out. The fact that you've assumed everyone on this thread is white, middle class, able-bodied and heterosexual says it all really.

Alondra · 10/05/2021 14:21

@TinyGlassOwl

I'm sorry but this whole thread is a "poor me" white middle class whinge

Ok, I'm out. The fact that you've assumed everyone on this thread is white, middle class, able-bodied and heterosexual says it all really.

No. It says it all about you.

Look at your first post and ask yourself where you took into consideration the social advantages our societies have experienced in the last 20 years with minorities. The fact you can't even acknowledge that "old times" were for minorities and majority of working class people, awful, again says it all really.

ConfusedAdultFemale · 10/05/2021 14:27

@DoAsYouWouldBeMumBy sorry this is a complete derailment, but I’m wondering if you were able to find decent employment easily at 28? I’ve worked a couple of small jobs before but employment history is sketchy due to MH issues (resolved now) and DC, been at college for a few years now and at 29 looking for my first “proper” job and absolutely shitting it I won’t find anyone who would consider employing me!

stickygotstuck · 10/05/2021 14:30

@TinyGlassOwl - One thing I really struggle with is the 'moral good' that is attached to work, at least in western society. Of course some jobs are necessary or fulfilling, or ideally both. But generally people who suggest that that may be more to life than slogging in an office for 40 hours a week in order to enrich shareholders and to Buy More Stuff are viewed with suspicion

^ I agree with this so much.

Just this morning I saw a thread by an OP who asked was it OK to work part time if she could afford not to have to work full time. The vitriol! She was called lazy, entitled, inmoral even. Quite eye-opening.

Misery loves company, I guess.

TheKeatingFive · 10/05/2021 14:32

There is a vast amount of anthropological research that paints a picture of what the lives of hunter/gatherers were like.

But the actual lived experience, you haven’t a god damn clue. How could you? No hunter gather recorded their feelings/reflections for us.

What anthropologists can tell us are the very bare bones of their existence. Squat all about their feelings.

But even based on what they know, I’m not sure you’ve really considered all the angles. Perhaps MH concerns just weren’t top of mind if you’re more worried about getting mauled by wild animals, or attacked by an enemy tribe. What was it like when you and your loved ones were sick or starving and you couldn’t do anything about it? What was a female experience like in a hunter/gatherer tribe, at the mercy of stronger men? Or a low status male, left with all the shit jobs?

Waveafterwaveslowlydrifting · 10/05/2021 14:34

To quote Blur, modern life is rubbish.

bananapumpkin · 10/05/2021 14:38

I agree that we may work less hours, however the fact that in most western countries two parents need to work full time to support a family and have their own home when this could have been achieved with one wage a few decades ago is a frustration for many.

But it is simply the inevitable consequence of most women going out to work! Housing is always going to be the biggest expense in a household budget. Many families having two incomes rather than one meant that they were able to pay more to get the home they wanted, so house prices went up and eventually that priced out single-income families. There was only really one generation who had the choice to work or not.

DoAsYouWouldBeMumBy · 10/05/2021 14:46

[quote ConfusedAdultFemale]@DoAsYouWouldBeMumBy sorry this is a complete derailment, but I’m wondering if you were able to find decent employment easily at 28? I’ve worked a couple of small jobs before but employment history is sketchy due to MH issues (resolved now) and DC, been at college for a few years now and at 29 looking for my first “proper” job and absolutely shitting it I won’t find anyone who would consider employing me![/quote]
I wouldn't say it was easy, because it took me at least a couple of months to find something, and that was late 90s London, so jobs were available. In your shoes, it might be good to temp for a bit, which would give you experience as well as the chance of a job with one of your employers.

tuttifuckinfruity · 10/05/2021 14:46

Agree completely.

I don't know the answer, but I think about it a lot as well.

I find it crazy just how many people (myself included) spend their days hammering away on a keyboard, letters / numbers on a screen, in order to keep the world turning.

Also, at a park with my kids this morning and noticing all the parents glued to their mobile phones. Not a judgement on the parents; It's just so weird to see.

I find modern life strange and exhausting and thinks thoughts similar to yours a lot.

Waveafterwaveslowlydrifting · 10/05/2021 15:10

This is interesting.

I'm a teacher (currently off sick with a nasty virus, not covid). Quite a bit of my job is bullshit, meetings, data, etc bit most of it sparks joy. Having good relationships with my class, doing fun stuff with them when we're allowed to, having a laugh with colleagues. It feels worthwhile. It's emotionally, mentally and physically draining but I never feel I don't want to go to work in the morning. This is the first time I've been off sick. I genuinely enjoy it.

Both DH and I working full time means we can afford luxuries like pony club for DD, karate club and sports for DS. Occasional spa days and meals out. Holidays and days out. Things to look forward to really.

I couldn't do my job if I hated it and it can be frustrating with the current government and public perception that teachers are lazy. But I feel I earn my 35k a year and work hard 55 hours a week. I enjoy my time off.

Is it meaningless and shallow to enjoy treats in life? Possibly. I see OP's point. Buying stuff can be a distraction. I'm guilty of it at times. Buying convenience is a luxury too. Choice is a luxury.

Megplant · 10/05/2021 15:20

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Mulletsaremisunderstood · 10/05/2021 15:20

@Alondra

The point is @Alondra that for many people (?mainly women, not sure tbh) those higher standards of living, washing machines, dishwashers, foreign holidays etc have not made people happier.

How do you know current standard of living have not made people happier? Because we want more? Because we want work less while maintaining the same/increasing living standards?

What about the black people in our communities? Are they looking back thinking life was grand 50 or 30 years ago? What about the disabled? Single mothers? Homosexuals?

I'm sorry but this whole thread is a "poor me" white middle class whinge.

Ah here, this is nonsense - why does every discussion have to be reduced to 'white middle class whinge' FFS.
newtb · 10/05/2021 15:29

I was born in 1956 and my df in 1907. Despite living through 2 world wars being torpedoed umpteen times in the second he said to me once that he'd preferred to live in his period of time rather than mine.

Quincie · 10/05/2021 15:31

What's everyone going to do with the extra time watch more Netflix?
I'm retired now and do manage to fill my time happily but sometimes wonder about how worthwhile it is - is it ok to spend your time just indulging yourself? ( I did do volunteer work but have stopped due to helping with DGCs)

Waveafterwaveslowlydrifting · 10/05/2021 15:31

I agree modern life is strange and exhausting. However I could not yearn for a simpler life because I'm lazy. I love my home comforts and appliances. I'd be a rubbish hunter gatherer!

Sometimes I Buy More Stuff out of boredom. That's not something I'm proud of. But I do it.

CounsellorTroi · 10/05/2021 15:37

@malificent7

A friend made a good point....technology is supposed to make our lives easier and free up leisure time...so why arent we working less?
In the 70s it was widely predicted that technological advances would mean we all had much more leisure - but what it actually meant was that employers employed fewer people so those in work ended up working harder than ever!
motherloaded · 10/05/2021 15:44

@Quincie

What's everyone going to do with the extra time watch more Netflix? I'm retired now and do manage to fill my time happily but sometimes wonder about how worthwhile it is - is it ok to spend your time just indulging yourself? ( I did do volunteer work but have stopped due to helping with DGCs)
of course it's ok! Life is too short to be miserable.

Sport, hobbies, friends, travel... If I didn't have to work, I would find it hard to fit in all the things I want to do and enjoy doing.

Be happy, be selfish but don't be a dick.

Cocomarine · 10/05/2021 15:46

@CounsellorTroi do you really think people are working harder than ever? I really don’t.

bakingdemon · 10/05/2021 15:48

A two day weekend, paid maternity leave and paid holiday are relatively recent innovations that I am very grateful for. The right to free education up to the age of 18 is still quite new. If I'd given birth even 50 years ago I'd probably be dead. So all in all I'm happy to be living now.

fluffedup · 10/05/2021 15:50

@PerveenMistry

Well not all 5 survived. I count them as 5 for the purposes of this discussion because all 5 resulted in maternity leave.
You may object to paying taxes for other people's children, maybe you won't object to them so much in a few years when the remaining 4 will all be taxpayers, who in a few decades will be paying taxes to support you.

SocialAffairsAndWoodlandFolk · 10/05/2021 15:50

There's a difference between saying "I wish we could live as we did in 1950/1500/prehistoric era" and saying "we could do better than this".

My family are from an Irish gaeltacht (I was born in UK). Since the 70s and Ireland joining the EU, modern, solid houses have been built there while the old houses are mostly used for cattle. Developmentally, the area was far behind the most of Ireland, most of Europe and certainly most of the UK. I don't have to go back very far to see an absolutely massive difference in standard of living and to know that I wouldn't want to live like that and it would be wholly ignorant to think that the older generations of my family had a better time of it, especially the women. That's not to say that they were all permanently miserable, they weren't, but life was hard.

However, the fact that my life has been much more comfortable than my mother's early life or any of the previous generations of my family does not mean that there is not room for improvement in the way society operates to make it both more environmentally sustainable, and simply more humane. As quality of life goes, most people in 21st century UK are at the top of the heap. But "your nan had it worse" is no reason not to want change of some sort.

Bluedeblue · 10/05/2021 15:59

From an evolutionary point of view, we’re designed for survival. Now we’re not consumed with day to day survival, we’ve got al this extra time for ruminating which isn’t always a heathy thing

This is so true, I think. No one had the time for all this self reflection in times gone by. They were too busy surviving.