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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is modern life 'worth it'?

332 replies

MrsTroutfire · 09/05/2021 20:18

Obviously, not an entirely 'serious' question as I doubt many people would want to live in the conditions our predecessors did 200 years ago with limited healthcare etc, and it's not likely that society will change anytime soon anyhow.

However, I drive a lot for my job and have a lot of time to endlessly ruminate over the universe. One thing that I always return to is the fact that as a society we work the majority of hours in a day, the majority of days in a week, the majority of weeks in a year, and the majority of years in our lives.

Then, in our mid/late 60s, with our youth decades behind us, we then finally get the freedom to spend our days as we wish, finances and health allowing. If you're male, the likelihood is that you'll probably have worked for over 40 years without a single month away from your work environment, as most people only get a few weeks leave each year and paternity leave still isn't really very common.

I'm pretty sure this was never planned and just evolved that way, but when you look around your place of work and think "this is the majority of my life" it's not a great thought!

Of course life was much tougher in previous centuries, but people were mainly trying to survive. Nowadays it seems like the main purpose of work is churning profit. Even with financial difficulties abound I don't know many people who literally have to worry about survival.

So I sometimes wonder what we actually spend our entire lives working for. No doubt, the machine would stop turning if a huge proportion of the population ceased to make and spend money, but in some ways it seems the system runs us nowadays rather than the reverse, in the sense that money was originally created as an alternative to barter, but is now the principle determinant of quality of life (health issues aside). For example, food may be plentiful, even going to waste, but that's no longer the issue as you'll still starve without the money to buy it (whilst I still appreciate that there has to be some alternative to bartering/swapping of physical goods and a currency is necessary).

It seems like we create new unnecessary technologies, and in turn a market which needs workers to populate it, and this keeps future generations in employment, but at the cost of moving ever further away from subsistence.

Of course people don't want to give up their OLED TV's, iPhones, game consoles, foreign holidays etc, and I don't either tbh. But then a part of me reflects that most people just seem happy to 'play the game' and are so involved in the various aspects of their lives that they don't consider that the biggest sacrifice most of us make is spending the vast majority of our life doing something that we don't really want to and which isn't ultimately necessary for survival in the truest sense.

I'm defo waffling now, but I'd love to be able to contrast our society against a parallel one where our focus has been on prioritising the bare essentials such as food and healthcare etc and people spend a much bigger percentage of their lives actually living them rather than sitting at a desk. Of course they wouldn't have all the gadgets and toys we have but they wouldn't know any different - hell, perhaps in a hundred years time when teleportation has become a thing, people will wonder how we stayed sane only leaving our country 1-2 times a year rather than daily!

OP posts:
jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey · 10/05/2021 16:09

When covid hit I was furloughed for a long time.
I realised I could live on 80 percent of my wage so I've cut my hours now to the same amount and condensed them into 3 days.
I have to budget and meal plan ect
I also will only have one holiday every couple of years but I'm absolutely fine with this.
I was relieved to step of f the wheel of grind.
I have enough and lots of spare time and I'm so happy with this.

Bluedeblue · 10/05/2021 16:51

I think an awful lot of self employed people, can reach the right balance between work and home life, because you're working for yourself and can choose your hours and time off.

Also, I think a lot of white collar workers would be shocked at what some "non professional" people earn. I was in a professional job as a Manager for many years, and I took voluntary redundancy and started my own business doing home dog boarding. People assume I earn very little, or do it for "pocket money", whereas in reality, I earn more than I ever did as a Manager in a big company (with all the stress and targets that entailed).

Have a think about what your window cleaner or beautician is raking in. You don't need to tie yourself to an Office.

Peace43 · 10/05/2021 17:00

Lots of people say they’d like to live in a little cottage in the countryside and grow their own and work less.
You could you know. 2 bed cottages in my village are about 120k. They generally come with chimneys and gardens. There’s a community allotment with space if you don’t have garden (or id lend you mind for a cut of the veg!). The village shop or pub are always looking for staff. There are 3 busses a day to the nearest town. Sell your house and car, move here, live the simple life. No Costa, cinemas, las iguanas, M&S... just a Spar and a pharmacy and a lot of countryside

osbertthesyrianhamster · 10/05/2021 17:03

People who actually think there is going to be any real version of 'retirement' as they know it are delusional. Life is a slog for 99% of people in the world, it always has been. I'm grateful to be leaving in the now than even 30 years ago. Hell, yes, it's worth it.

LibertyMole · 10/05/2021 17:12

‘However, the fact that my life has been much more comfortable than my mother's early life or any of the previous generations of my family does not mean that there is not room for improvement in the way society operates to make it both more environmentally sustainable, and simply more humane. As quality of life goes, most people in 21st century UK are at the top of the heap. But "your nan had it worse" is no reason not to want change of some sort.’

This is a really good point, and there are many reasons to want to change society. I would like people to treat each other better and live in a more sustainable way.

But much posted on here is about some cottage fantasy.

I am on a low income and a lot of that goes on rent for a tiny house in a not very nice urban area. But I love my life. I enjoy my low paid full time job; it is rewarding and important for society and far better paid that my previous job.

And I love my tiny house. It gives me freedom and safety. I am one of the few women in the whole history of the world who has had the freedom to live without a man. It is complete bliss to be in my own home.

And I love my dishwasher and Netflix (which is pretty cheap really). Yes, I don’t have much money left after heating, rent, food etc, but I really enjoy having a warm, safe house with nice food and I didn’t have that for a long time. And I like being able to buy a couple of extras like bedding plants to put in a window box or Netflix or a nice mug or a train ticket to see a friend. It is enough of a life for me. I still find my existence to be full of meaning and purpose.

Coldties · 10/05/2021 17:22

I now work 3 days so I can have 2 days with my DC and it’s amazing. If I could afford to be a SAHM I would but I also think I have it made, I have enough money for treats and I’m not working 5 days a week.

I feel very lucky and fortunate to be in this situation and when my children are at school
I don’t think I will be upping my hours. The most I will ever do now is 4 days. The work life balance is miles better.

I really feel for people who can’t afford to drop hours or days and might have work until they are 70 etc.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/05/2021 17:24

Has anyone mentioned robots?

Won’t people have a lot more leisure time with the rise of the robots? People might be forced to retire earlier if there aren’t many jobs.

MildredPuppy · 10/05/2021 17:28

I remember reading an interview with one of the oldest women to have lived. She lived in rural russia and said she'd wished she died years ago as life was just digging and digging

castemary · 10/05/2021 17:29

Only 40 years? I started working at 16 and will work until 67 when I get my state pension. 52 years more like.

castemary · 10/05/2021 17:32

@osbertthesyrianhamster

People who actually think there is going to be any real version of 'retirement' as they know it are delusional. Life is a slog for 99% of people in the world, it always has been. I'm grateful to be leaving in the now than even 30 years ago. Hell, yes, it's worth it.
There has always been a retirement for elderly people whenever the society goes beyond basic subsistence. People get too old to work. We had to beg my father to stop working on his business as he was going to drop dead with the physical effort and was no longer doing a good job anyway. The difference is when extended families are living together, this version of retirement means adult children paying for food and clothes for their elderly parents.
osbertthesyrianhamster · 10/05/2021 17:33

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Has anyone mentioned robots?

Won’t people have a lot more leisure time with the rise of the robots? People might be forced to retire earlier if there aren’t many jobs.

On what? Serious question.
osbertthesyrianhamster · 10/05/2021 17:34

There has always been a retirement for elderly people whenever the society goes beyond basic subsistence.

Yeah, and usually it's not been very long or very good if you didn't have kids or family you could live with Sad.

bluelemons · 10/05/2021 17:37

Unfortunately you do need to live a bit abnormally to achieve it (not buying the most expensive house/car you can afford, to name one)

Or buy the most expensive house you can afford in an area where property prices are rising, make a big gain, sell up and move somewhere cheaper. Maybe something that was easier 20 years ago than it would be now to be fair.

Blossomtoes · 10/05/2021 17:39

@osbertthesyrianhamster

People who actually think there is going to be any real version of 'retirement' as they know it are delusional. Life is a slog for 99% of people in the world, it always has been. I'm grateful to be leaving in the now than even 30 years ago. Hell, yes, it's worth it.
There will always be retirement for people with occupational pensions.
castemary · 10/05/2021 17:40

Of course, when there is no state and you have to rely on your family, some people have a terrible life. The workhouses were full of people too old to work. But my point is this modern idea that everyone worked till they dropped is not true. And that is even more the case in the modern day. How many employers would employ someone with early dementia who gets lost coming back from the toilets and can't remember what they did yesterday or what they are supposed to do today? And most elderly people have health problems in some cases requiring frequent hospital visits. Who would employ my father who is at the hospital or GP at least once a week for more tests, minor operations and check ups?
Whatever the government might say, unless we leave elderly people to die on the streets, there has to be a retirement. Even people I know who do still work in their eighties, only work very part-time.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 10/05/2021 17:41

There will always be retirement for people with occupational pensions.

Maybe. But given long life expectancies, even that's not a given anymore.

castemary · 10/05/2021 17:42

Poorer people who are least likely to have pensions die first. Your life expectancy rises with weath.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/05/2021 18:29

People on here are assuming life will continue as it is now.

As l said robots are coming. I predict an universal income. If robots do the majority of jobs what are the population going to do it live on.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/05/2021 18:30

Without the typos!

As l said robots are coming. I predict a universal income. If robots do the majority of jobs, what are the population going to do or live on?

MyOctopusFeature · 10/05/2021 18:38

The people who will be the most successful in future will be those who learn to live with less.

Think about it. It solves all of the problems people are finding on this thread.

DuesToTheDirt · 10/05/2021 19:00

Re hunter/gatherers - anyone remember Bruce Parry's Tribe? He found being a hunter gatherer left him with so much free time he was at a loss what to do with himself. Not a hard life at all.

I think when farming came in people had to work a lot harder (like the Russian woman above who was tired of digging).

motherloaded · 10/05/2021 19:02

@MyOctopusFeature

The people who will be the most successful in future will be those who learn to live with less.

Think about it. It solves all of the problems people are finding on this thread.

I disagree, it doesn't have to be a race to the bottom, I don't want to live with less, and the pandemic has shown that being comfortable is always a positive!
osbertthesyrianhamster · 10/05/2021 19:17

I'm with you, motherloaded. One of my best friends is one of the funnest people I know. She's childfree and single by choice. She has an amazing career and incredibly wealthy parents. She owns this big house and loves to entertain in it, have guests and often has had her 3 nephews since they were small. We were watching 'Tiny Houses' and I asked her, 'Would you ever go for that?' She signed, 'No. I need space for all my shit.'

Bravo! Life is short, I've had far too much asceticism foisted upon me through no fault or choice of my own to voluntarily subscribe to it again of my own volition. Fuck that.

Dailywalk · 10/05/2021 19:20

It’s a really interesting topic and I admit I haven’t read all the replies. I do think it’s madness what we have ‘agreed’ to as part of a normal life. Work all day, 5 days a week, barely see the children we have and take just a couple of weeks per year to spend together if we’re fortunate enough. I worry with my family history I won’t see much of my retirement so part of me questions putting away for it at all! Why not just enjoy my life now? Perhaps work part time and live in a much smaller house in a cheaper area?