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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Moral Dilemma

425 replies

freerunner75 · 08/05/2021 15:56

My partner and I have been together 12 years. Both married previously, my marriage ended horrifically, my husband blew a tonne of my savings and left me in £25k debt. My partners marriage was similar, his ex left with an extremely large settlement.

We moved in together to a rented place with a view to buying something together. His marital home was sold to settle the divorce agreement, but he had one other property in his name at the time which he kept and rented out. The house we now live in - was bought at an extremely low rate from family. I had no say in this and was not given the option to be a part of it as he classes it as his 'inheritance' and is protective over the equity given what happened with his divorce. I pay half towards the bills and we have both designed and improved the house since we have been here - i have paid for only soft furnishings and a few bits of furniture as I earn a lot less than him and most of my money goes towards the bills and my kids. The house we live in has tripled in value since we have been here and made improvements.

So, we are not married, no mortgage together, no life insurance for each other, nothing. Together 12 years.

The whole lack of financial security is a big issue to me and has caused us endless arguments over the years. But he won't budge. Recently we had a huge bust up and I was looking into my options but they are few given my current situation and budget limitations.

Am willing to take a bashing on this - however am I being unreasonable to request for him to set aside some money for me in case our relationship does break down irretrievably so that I have a safety net? I was thinking perhaps £1000 per year for every year we have lived together - signed and agreed by both and by a solicitor so we both know where we stand?

I am currently earning more than I have for a while and am starting to be able to save again - but my biggest concern is that if we do finish.. i am out on the streets with nothing to my name despite contributing for years... yet he is sitting pretty. I know it sounds bloody awful, but it would take a lot of stress off me and our relationship and I don't think I am being unreasonable.

But I am expecting to be told that I am..... thoughts please.

OP posts:

Honeyroar · 09/05/2021 21:22

I understand why you’re worried. This guy isn’t going to get married or share his assets. He doesn’t have to. You’re here sharing everything with no commitment anyway. At this point I think I’d think of moving out, calling his bluff. It might mean a smaller house with no cars for the children (you could live in an area where they don’t need a car). But personally I couldn’t carry on as you are.

Cocomarine · 09/05/2021 21:31

Wait...

Your child lost their apprenticeship - which is more than just a job, but the the opening into jobs - because your boyfriend was grumpy in the morning with a hangover?

If that’s really what happened - why on Earth are you still with him?

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 09/05/2021 21:43

I appreciate that it must be awful to realise that your dreams of a shared future, shared security and marriage aren't his dreams too. He isn't offering what you thought he was.

But on the other hand, you have had 12 years to start to put money aside as it has become clear that his property is not a shared investment. You've lived more cheaply with him than you would have done on your own. Your kids don't need cars. The only reason you have felt able to spend money on cars for them is because you are living fairly cheaply in your partner's house. You've also benefited (in a practical sense) from renovations that you haven't paid for.

At some point you need to take responsibility for your own decisions. You can't change what your partner does, but there is nothing to stop you taking control of your own financial security.

Whether or not you decide to stay, there are things you can do. Instead of paying for 3 cars, you could have been putting a chunk of that money into an investment fund. Why haven't you? In the long run it would do you and your kids more good than the two extra cars will.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 09/05/2021 21:45

@Cocomarine

Wait...

Your child lost their apprenticeship - which is more than just a job, but the the opening into jobs - because your boyfriend was grumpy in the morning with a hangover?

If that’s really what happened - why on Earth are you still with him?

Fuck, I missed this somehow. Just LTB already. He's a dick.

And take control of your financial security!

NoDramaMama14 · 09/05/2021 21:49

If you have children you owe it to yourself and them to be financially independent. If he can't see that then you are better off alone.

angela99999 · 09/05/2021 22:35

Afraid I've not read all the posts, sorry, but obviously if you raise it with him he's likely to react by saying that you don't intend to stay with him or you wouldn't bring it up. You've already discovered that his committment to you isn't quite what you imagine, in the long term.
You're in a tough situation, he's not carried through with any of his original promises to you and you obviously don't feel secure with him or you wouldn't have raised this here. Sadly your gut-feeling may be right - I've had that feeling myself and discovered that the hard way.

I agree with Bythemillpond, you need to think about yourself and start to salt away money and I'm glad to hear that you are thinking about this. Perhaps tell him you can't afford to contribute as much as you have been doing as you need to build up a nest egg for yourself, like the one he has? I think you're in a no-win situation sadly.

Mamanyt · 10/05/2021 00:08

You are not being unreasonable, but you may be being unrealistic, given the circumstances. Start taking steps to ensure that you will be financially independent, should this relationship fail. Are you able to retrain/get further training in order to increase your income? Start putting a bit aside as a nest-egg of your own.

Also, speak with a solicitor. Explain your situation honestly and completely to him, and ask if there are legal recourses for you, given your circumstances. There may well be. Here in the US, in MOST states, there are, to one degree or another.

Rmka · 10/05/2021 02:17

OP, reading your updates I see more red flags about your partner:

not wanting to get married is a good enough reason to leave. Unless it's not very important to you, but it sounds like it is.
buying a house without consulting you and not wanting you to buy even a share is like saying you're just his housemate, not a life partner.
"Due to my partner drinking heavily during the week and being ratty in the morning and not having patience" - does your partner have a drinking problem? There are resources online if you're unsure.

I'm sorry you're going through all this and I hope you'll find a solution that will make you happy. I wish you a lot of strength.

PerveenMistry · 10/05/2021 03:21

@Rmka

OP, reading your updates I see more red flags about your partner: 1) not wanting to get married is a good enough reason to leave. Unless it's not very important to you, but it sounds like it is. 2) buying a house without consulting you and not wanting you to buy even a share is like saying you're just his housemate, not a life partner. 3) "Due to my partner drinking heavily during the week and being ratty in the morning and not having patience" - does your partner have a drinking problem? There are resources online if you're unsure.

I'm sorry you're going through all this and I hope you'll find a solution that will make you happy. I wish you a lot of strength.

Why is OP in love with a boozing user who clearly couldn't care less about her long-term security and happiness?

How many more years will be wasted on him?

Alleycat1 · 10/05/2021 08:08

I would have finished the relationship the minute he bought a house without consulting me and without giving me a chance to share in it financially. That is not the action of a loving partner and tells you all you need to know about how he views you and the relationship. You are basically a 'chief cook , bottle washer' and bed warmer who is paying for the privilege.
It is obvious you love him but he seems to have no thought for your long-term future OP. I don't know why you are getting such a battering on here. You entered a relationship where marriage and financial security was offered and your only fault, so far as I can see, is in not cutting your losses earlier when these things failed to materialise. Time for some tough talking and decisions and I wish you the very best of luck.

Luddite26 · 10/05/2021 08:18

I totally hear what you are saying but i voted YABU.

Is there any way you can negotiate more part in the business as you say you have been helping him with it.
You do need to get some savings i admire you for paying off the debts and agree bringing up kids is a massive expense i don't know your age but now is the time to get back to supersaving like you did paying off the debts. While you can before you get too old or family circumstances change eg grankids come along.

Look on Martin Lewis for sorting out your finances. i don't think you have been a gold digger etc. But i feel it's up to you to get on with it.
You don't have to leave partner just save and try to get your own buy to let or some investments.
Then start putting more in your pension.
Start the change now you need your own security. Good luck.

Daisydoesnt · 10/05/2021 09:08

This is a pet peeve of mine. Look at it the other way around; why should someone who has taken the deliberate and conscious decision NOT to enter into a contract, be bound by it anyway? That’s what you are talking about; because you live together, but aren’t married, you should be entitled to their assets as if you were?

They choose not to enter into a contract for a reason. Your rights don’t trump theirs.

roguetomato · 10/05/2021 09:21

In the post few years ago, you are saying exactly the same thing, and you got similar response from posters regarding finance. I think nothing is going to change unless you do.
He justified himself for you to work for him for free by taking you on holidays etc. So clearly you have spoken about finance back then. Did anything changed since then?

Blossomtoes · 10/05/2021 09:23

ask if there are legal recourses for you, given your circumstances. There may well be

There aren’t. He could kick her out tomorrow with nothing and he’d be perfectly within his rights.

cooldarkroom · 10/05/2021 09:57

My heart goes out to you. I have been in a similarly precarious situation & it is very uncomfortable, & in the end a lot of resentment grew as I felt increasingly taken for granted with no security.
My H was previously married, & had obviously decided not to let himself be used again, no advantage whatsoever for him
But was I supposed to get nothing at all if he dies, or took off with an OW, no home, no security of joint family patrimony ? Because yes we are a family, I had done all & every job raising the kids & keeping the home fires burning, every single night call to a baby or child, every single meal & menial job that goes with being the woman, All my own money was used up on the home improvements, & we had created a house & garden over a long time, years, & a lot of back breaking work, I was up & down the ladder with tiles too, I was mixing cement, I was cleaning tiles along side him. But was entitled to nothing legally,
to the point of his ex wife being entitled to his meagre pension (Not UK. This rule has now changed, but used to be the case)

In my case we finally got married after 28 years of partnership, because the accountant basically suggested he would pay less tax on a big sale of assets... (long winded financial loop hole story) He asked, I accepted. (My Dad must have been watching over me from up above) as had this not come up I know he wouldn't ever have done it off his own back.

So it really isn't a case of wanting to "stiff" the guy.

So back to you, your charming partner was drunk in the morning at work, He sacked your son. This a major red flag surely.
You work in some way helping his company ?
How would his life look if you left ? would he care? or just keep on drinking & being Lord of the mansion?
I just wondered if a well prepared talk would help? Is he going to listen?
Is he going to realize that the situation Is going to implode if he doesn't help you feel secure long term ?...Has he made a will ? Will you be homeless if he dies ? If he has an accident or major health issue, does he know it's his parents or children who will make decisions in extremis?
Does he care that after your joint journey you will basically be penniless & shafted ? Does he CARE ?
Having said that, if the answer is No, then really, you already know what you need to know.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 10/05/2021 10:04

I had done all & every job raising the kids & keeping the home fires burning, every single night call to a baby or child, every single meal & menial job that goes with being the woman, All my own money was used up on the home improvements, & we had created a house & garden over a long time, years, & a lot of back breaking work, I was up & down the ladder with tiles too, I was mixing cement, I was cleaning tiles along side him.

Women need to realise they are NOT BLOODY OBLIGATED TO DO THIS SHIT!

This is a plea to all the women out there in precarious financial positions - take responsibility for your own security. And don't be a skivvy for a man who doesn't give you security. (Actually, don't be a skivvy full stop). Why on earth would anyone think it was a good idea to pay for improvements to an asset that isn't yours?

cooldarkroom · 10/05/2021 10:34

Yes indeed !
But there was no "obligation" We were building a home, I was committed to improving our life,
He was bringing in the salary,
I was was the cement between the bricks.
Unfortunately, I was in love, young, had faith !

He wasn't deliberately hoarding his assets, he was alright Jack...
Actually it comes down to looking after number 1.

VanGoghsDog · 10/05/2021 10:58

I shouldn't have to get married just to protect myself. I appreciate that is one of the reasons to get married, but it seems in this case people are suggesting that I should get married just to make myself eligible to his dosh. I have my own money - I just don't have savings yet because I haven't been able to do that until now.

You don't have to get married, you can have a civil partnership.

I honestly don't think you are worse off than you would have been without him. The "build together" was unrealistic wasn't it? You had nothing to bring to the party - it's not his fault your ex spent all your money, he doesn't have to make up for that.

I can see why he wants his assets separate. The one thing you can do is to keep your finances separate from now on, pay for everything half and half. Don't allow him to use his money to build assets (mortgage, savings) while yours is used for consumables (food, toiletries etc). He has to pay his share of the consumables.

PissedOffAgain · 10/05/2021 11:01

@Ostagazuzulum

God, you've had a right battering here. I think some people might not be absorbing what you're saying though. It's a bit unjust. I don't think you're a freeloader at all. Anyone giving you grief for not saving needs to get a reality check. Not everyone can save. I loves with an ex who earned 4 times as much as me at least refuses to compromise where we lived (very affluent area I couldn't afford) and all my money went on paying my way. He had thousands spare each month whilst I hd nothing, even though I paid slightly less as I couldn't manage 50/50 split with bills etc, all my money went on paying my way. So I had zero opportunity ott to save and when the relationship ended had very little in way of savings through no fault of my own. OP, I actually think if you've contributed then you should morally be entitled to something. I can guarantee if you were married, sahm raising kids whilst he worked, or worked a lesser paid job, everyone would be saying you were entitled to half.

But she's not a SAHM raising kids. She's working. She's paying £200 pp pcm towards outgoings. So according to her previous post he's paying 2.5x more than any other person. And the mortgage. I'd love to be able to pay £200 a month for my bills. And pay no rent.

VanGoghsDog · 10/05/2021 11:05

Also, it's not comparable to being a SAHM because they are not his kids! (And they are grown up)

Alleycat1 · 10/05/2021 11:13

What she is paying is not the point. The point is she went into this relationship with the promise of marriage and equity in a jointly owned home. Her partner has reneged on that and she will be left high and dry if the relationship breaks down.
If she had been married to him would you expect her to walk away with nothing after 12 years? Would the 'build together' not count if she had been a married SAHM for example as VanGoghsdog has posted?

PerveenMistry · 10/05/2021 11:15

"Don't allow him to use his money to build assets (mortgage, savings) while yours is used for consumables (food, toiletries etc). He has to pay his share of the consumables."

So many women have made this terrible mistake.

CheesyMother · 10/05/2021 11:15

I wish people would stop giving out legal “advice” willy nilly with no understanding of the law! It is not true to say that she has absolutely no right in the property and can just be thrown out onto the street tonight if he so decides.

OP - whilst it is correct that you would have far more legal protection if you were married, it may be that you do have a beneficial interest in this house (or at least a right to live in it). It’s a complex area, and will depend on the facts in your situation, but if you did intend to buy somewhere together and you have contributed to the improvements in the house then you might have some financial interest in it. Whether you have enough evidence to prove it is another matter. If you are thinking about ending the relationship then it may be worth seeking legal advice on this point.
england.shelter.org.uk/legal/relationship_breakdown/cohabiting_couples_sole_owner/beneficial_interest_and_occupation_rights_for_non-owning_cohabitant

It sounds like you have also been working for your partner for free too (I haven’t read the other thread linked to). It may be that he owes you back pay for this if he should have been paying you minimum wage...

On a separate note, if he runs his business through a company or is a higher (or additional) rate tax payer himself then it probably makes sense to pay you a salary that at least brings your income up to the top of the basic rate band, from a tax perspective, even if you just then use that money towards your joint expenses. And if he was contributing to a pension for you via salary sacrifice that would make even more financial sense.

You clearly need to change something in your set up. If you have enough money to, I would seriously think about speaking to a lawyer about the possible interest in his property. And I would also ask him if he’s considered whether it would make more sense (for him as well!) to pay you something/make pension contributions for the work you do for him (which I personally would insist on being paid for in the future). This is all separate to whether you decide to stay with him or leave.

A frank discussion about your position should he be hit by a bus tomorrow might make him realise that it’s not just about the risk of you “fleecing” him if the relationship breaks down...

Also, given that you are so financially dependent on him at the moment, what on earth was your (adult) child thinking about working for him?! Don’t put all your eggs in one basket etc. Also, if it was a genuine apprenticeship then it’s much harder to just sack someone... and if it wasn’t then I do hope he wasn’t abusing the apprenticeship tax breaks to employ your son...

PerveenMistry · 10/05/2021 11:18

@Daisydoesnt

They choose not to enter into a contract for a reason. Your rights don’t trump theirs.

This.

PerveenMistry · 10/05/2021 11:20

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

Women need to realise they are NOT BLOODY OBLIGATED TO DO THIS SHIT!

Why women willingly lie down & make doormats of themselves, just to keep some mediocre (at best) selfish dud around, rather than live independently and strong, is the eternal mystery.

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