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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Moral Dilemma

425 replies

freerunner75 · 08/05/2021 15:56

My partner and I have been together 12 years. Both married previously, my marriage ended horrifically, my husband blew a tonne of my savings and left me in £25k debt. My partners marriage was similar, his ex left with an extremely large settlement.

We moved in together to a rented place with a view to buying something together. His marital home was sold to settle the divorce agreement, but he had one other property in his name at the time which he kept and rented out. The house we now live in - was bought at an extremely low rate from family. I had no say in this and was not given the option to be a part of it as he classes it as his 'inheritance' and is protective over the equity given what happened with his divorce. I pay half towards the bills and we have both designed and improved the house since we have been here - i have paid for only soft furnishings and a few bits of furniture as I earn a lot less than him and most of my money goes towards the bills and my kids. The house we live in has tripled in value since we have been here and made improvements.

So, we are not married, no mortgage together, no life insurance for each other, nothing. Together 12 years.

The whole lack of financial security is a big issue to me and has caused us endless arguments over the years. But he won't budge. Recently we had a huge bust up and I was looking into my options but they are few given my current situation and budget limitations.

Am willing to take a bashing on this - however am I being unreasonable to request for him to set aside some money for me in case our relationship does break down irretrievably so that I have a safety net? I was thinking perhaps £1000 per year for every year we have lived together - signed and agreed by both and by a solicitor so we both know where we stand?

I am currently earning more than I have for a while and am starting to be able to save again - but my biggest concern is that if we do finish.. i am out on the streets with nothing to my name despite contributing for years... yet he is sitting pretty. I know it sounds bloody awful, but it would take a lot of stress off me and our relationship and I don't think I am being unreasonable.

But I am expecting to be told that I am..... thoughts please.

OP posts:
Tessabelle74 · 09/05/2021 19:31

I'm going to be brutal here. This man will NEVER marry you. You will be an 80 year old girlfriend. He's once bitten twice shy, maybe it's understandable, but he wont make that "mistake" again and you will never get a penny out of him if you split. Personally I'd be out of there (would have been ages ago tbh) as this shared dream you had isn't shared at all! You're pretty much a housekeeper. I'd cut your losses and go back to supporting yourself and your children alone, you'll be financially and emotionally from the sound of it, better off

MayorGoodwaysChicken · 09/05/2021 19:33

And if your partner sacked your child then either:

A) Your child deserved it and he is fed up of funding them at home, wasn’t prepared to pay a wage they weren’t working hard enough for as well.

Or

B) Your partner has unfairly SACKED your hardworking and responsible child, which would be relationship ending in my book.

Why was your child working for him anyway-could they not get a job elsewhere? I find it hard to believe that being grumpy and hungover led an employer to unfairly sack their long time partner’s child...,there must be more to this story!

DeathStare · 09/05/2021 19:34

OP I have teenagers. We live on around £20k a year - out of which I pay for all those things you pay for (except my kids don't have a car) plus I pay for rent. £900 to me is a fortune - it is to anyone on £20k. You need to cut your cloth according to your income.

I am not unusual- there are plenty of single parents living on £20k who have to pay rent. If we didnt have to pay rent we would be able to put away the rent money and have nice savings. There is absolutely no reason you couldn't have done this. The reason you have no savings isn't because of your partner - it's because you're living way beyond your means. People with a £20k income cannot usually afford 3 cars and luxury toiletries and neither can you.

AuroraSophia · 09/05/2021 19:39

You really are taking a battering from PP OP 😅
They’re making it sound like you’ve used him and you’ve lived off him but I haven’t read that at all. You’ve been secure and happy and had a great set up and now you are considering your options if the relationship was to break down. Tbh I don’t think you can ask him for the money. I’d just suggest as previous reasonable people have said start saving for yourself and have a back up plan. But also if you feel you need a back up plan you clearly can’t see a future with this person so get yourself out! Also you can apply to the council for social housing for yourself and your children and look to eventually buy that for yourself x

BadNomad · 09/05/2021 19:43

Are you in his will? If not then you're going to be stuffed then too if he drops dead tomorrow.

winniestone37 · 09/05/2021 19:43

If you have contributed to repairs of the property and can prove it you have a claim over it. That’s the law. Go and see a solicitor.

Original poster
freerunner75 · 09/05/2021 19:47

@wantanotherdog

You say you love each other and have been together for 12 years. Even with the histories of your previous marriages, isn't 12 years long enough to discover if you also trust each other? If there's no trust between you, that's a really bad sign. Why, after 12 years, aren't you married? Are neither of you really committed to this relationship? Are you hoping things will just magically work out? Or, and I hate to be brutal here, is at least one of you waiting for someone better to come along? You can love someone but not really trust them. But is that really good enough for you? Don't you want love AND trust?
You would think so yes. I have wanted it from very early on.. so apparently did he.. but nothing has materialised. And yes like a fool, I kept hoping it would.. at what point to you walk away just because someone won’t marry you??

Maybe that’s it, maybe he is waiting for someone better to come along.. it certainly isn’t a nice feeling knowing that someone won’t commit but not knowing why... perhaps that’s it.

OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 09/05/2021 19:54

But how is it fair that if we were married, and we divorced I could technically (if I wanted to) claim x amount of pounds and walk away, yet as we are not.. I can’t. Despite for the most part.. being in exactly the same relationship. That’s my point.

You have two choices - get married (he probably won't want to as he wants to protect his assets) or lobby your MP for a change in the law.

I don't personally think unmarried couples should have rights to the other's assets because the choice is there - get married (or a CP). If one of you doesn't want to get married then the one who wants 'security' has the choice to leave and find someone who does want to marry them and share their assets.

I tend to find that in relationships, I am the one with the assets and there's no way I would get married. I want my assets to go to my niece and nephew, not someone else's kids.

Bourbonic · 09/05/2021 19:56

As your financial situation has changed I think it makes perfect sense to have a conversation about it and agree what's what.

Cameleongirl · 09/05/2021 20:00

Personally I'd be out of there (would have been ages ago tbh) as this shared dream you had isn't shared at all!

Unfortunately, I think @Tessabelle74 has hit the nail on the head - you thought you had a shared dream of marriage and joint home ownership, but it turns out that you haven't. After 12 (presumable mostly happy) years together, getting married shouldn't be a big issue unless he has no intention of ever marrying you...and I don't think he has.

On the positive side, you're now earning more and your children are young adults moving towards greater independence, so you can start securing your financial future. Stay with him if you want to, but make sure you save as much as you can so that if/when the situation changes, you're prepared. Good luck, OP, I think some PP's have given you a hard time, but I personally don't think you're been greedy, you're simply realizing that your shared dream isn't going to happen and trying to work out how best to move forward. Flowers

impossible · 09/05/2021 20:05

It's easy to see how this situation has happened - sometimes it's enough just to get through the moment, especially if you're trying to keep yourself and dcs afloat. It's not clear how much your partner's lack of financial commitment to you is causing the stress in your relationship but it can't be helping.

Perhaps step back a little and think about how you feel about him and if you would like to maintain a long term relationship with him. When you're clear speak to him and let him tell you what he feels about his relationship with you. It might be that money issues are clouding a relationship that could still be very good. He might feel that you are taking advantage of him (only staying with him because your choices are limited) so I think it's really important to hammer this out.

If you want to be together into the future perhaps you can discuss ways you can both feel more appreciated and secure - and that will include thinking again about finances. But try to work out your feelings first. If you decide you want to be together that should take some of the anger out of your relationship and hopefully make you more empathetic towards each other. You have both been stung in the past and there are probably all sorts of complicated feelings going on for both of you under the surface.

Good luck!

Jojofjo44 · 09/05/2021 20:14

Reading between the lines, and from the language you are using eg. Loved him, did want to marry him- past tense, it seems that you are at a crossroads right now. You need to know for your own future how he feels. After 12 years, there isn't going to be any huge changes, and no relationship is perfect.
I'd be having that talk first, and putting escape plans into action in the meantime just in case its a negative response to my questions.

di2004 · 09/05/2021 20:17

Sounds like you’re very miserable.
He’s obviously got no intention of involving any of his property with you, so look into options and get out while you can. Good luck x

MiddleClassProblem · 09/05/2021 20:17

I do think your children are incredibly lucky to have a car each that you pay for, plus your own car. I don’t know many families like that particular on a low income, even with two working parents. Plenty of kids share the family car or if they are lucky share a car between them. Many pay for their own.

I do think having 3 cars (potentially 4 in the household) is a luxury and what I would assume to be a wealthy family from the outside.

AllWashedOut · 09/05/2021 20:19

In light of OP's words, if things had happened more 'normally' and as planned, the couple would have invested equally into property. Over 12 years she/they would have been able to convert earnings into real estate that has risen more than inflation. As the man has inherited, this joint investment that OP could have done on her own back if single has been kyboshed. Morally, I think she has a case to ask for some increased financial security. Legally, it's a different case.

Original poster
freerunner75 · 09/05/2021 20:38

@AllWashedOut

In light of OP's words, if things had happened more 'normally' and as planned, the couple would have invested equally into property. Over 12 years she/they would have been able to convert earnings into real estate that has risen more than inflation. As the man has inherited, this joint investment that OP could have done on her own back if single has been kyboshed. Morally, I think she has a case to ask for some increased financial security. Legally, it's a different case.
Thank you. Yes that is exactly my position.
OP posts:
Original poster
freerunner75 · 09/05/2021 20:43

In response to the question about the cars for my children.. yes I know it seems extreme, but the cars weren’t anywhere near brand new.. it’s made their lives a lot easier.

I’m not going to apologise for overstretching myself in order to try and make up for the shit they went through as young children witnessing/experiencing what their real father did. I have wanted to give them as much as I can.. and I have. They aren’t driving brand new cars.. more beat up old bangers.. but they appreciate them. I can’t let them borrow my car as I need it for work... so that option isn’t available. Where we live now is difficult for them to get lifts or public transport to where they need to go.. and that also comes with a cost anyway. Getting them a car was hard work, but has given them some independence.

OP posts:
Bythemillpond · 09/05/2021 20:46

The whole marriage things is a carrot on a stick it seems.. he still talked about us buying somewhere together jointly to rent out which has never transpired. He also stills talks about one day getting married.. when things are right

He is all talk.
I doubt if his family hadn’t handed him a house (I mean they probably did all the legal work etc for him) you wouldn’t have bought anywhere together. He would still be talking about buying together.

I don’t think you are going to get anywhere with someone who wants perfection so I would suggest you go through your finances with a fine tooth comb and put away as much as you can then buy the cheapest btl property you can find and start bolstering your long term income.

It might just get him thinking that you aren’t such a sure thing and if he sees that he might lose you or see you carving a business life without him he might just decide to marry you.

You don’t need his permission to buy a house.
Either way I would start putting away everything you can whilst you can. You don’t know when the rug will be pulled.

AllWashedOut · 09/05/2021 20:49

Thinking more OP, 12k is such a small sum (relative to his wealth) I can't believe he'll refuse. Does he believe he's building a life together with you? I have had a similar thing in my marriage. BIG bust up, reassessment, freak out over my lack of financial security. It was a tough time, had my heart going over the stress of it. In the end, we are still together with readjustments on certain things (money into my name plus a small regular income from a rental he owns). It is possible to be concerned about financial security in a partnership and NOT be interested at all in money grabbing.

Original poster
freerunner75 · 09/05/2021 20:54

@AllWashedOut

Thinking more OP, 12k is such a small sum (relative to his wealth) I can't believe he'll refuse. Does he believe he's building a life together with you? I have had a similar thing in my marriage. BIG bust up, reassessment, freak out over my lack of financial security. It was a tough time, had my heart going over the stress of it. In the end, we are still together with readjustments on certain things (money into my name plus a small regular income from a rental he owns). It is possible to be concerned about financial security in a partnership and NOT be interested at all in money grabbing.
Thank you.
OP posts:
Original poster
freerunner75 · 09/05/2021 20:55

@Bythemillpond

Exactly. I think you and a few others here are sadly exactly right.

Thank you.

OP posts:
RenoSusan · 09/05/2021 20:55

This is a huge problem in the US, particularly if you are a SAHM. You will be left penniless and no where to live. Start immediately putting every penny you can into a savings in your name only. You will need this fund soon. Also, put your name in for a Council House as I understand the waiting time is long. If not for you, do this for your children.

MiddleClassProblem · 09/05/2021 20:56

I’m not criticising you for the cars but it’s difficult to balance that, not just the cost of the cars but the running costs too that you said you pay for, with saying you only just now have the opportunity to save. Keeping in mind that one is only 18 so most of their car ownership has been during the pandemic too. They are lucky.

They were your choices to make and you made that over saving. That’s fine. But it was 100% your choice and a choice many others wouldn’t choose on a low income even living rurally. Most would encourage their kids to save and buy their own cars and/or pay for the running costs.

You can’t take everything as a slight. It’s not a slight on your choices but I don’t think financially you are in such a bad place if you even had these choices available.

Lan2020 · 09/05/2021 20:57

I suppose it's looking at what you want in life. You and your partner originally agreed to jointly buy a property, in which case the money you pay each month would be na investment and you would both part own property.
Is he still willing to buy a property with you as originally agreed? In your situation, I would want to be with somebody I could buy a property with. In this case one person wouldn't pay bills and the other pay the mortgage but you would both pay towards everything and both have ownership of property.
If he's said he doesn't want nay financial ties with you, you either continue as you are but have no financial security of you seperate or find another relationship and a partner who will jointly buy property so you both have some investment. Obviously you can also buy property alone if you have the money to do so.
What about marriage? Is this something either of you are interested in?

Ostagazuzulum · 09/05/2021 21:14

God, you've had a right battering here. I think some people might not be absorbing what you're saying though. It's a bit unjust. I don't think you're a freeloader at all. Anyone giving you grief for not saving needs to get a reality check. Not everyone can save.
I loves with an ex who earned 4 times as much as me at least refuses to compromise where we lived (very affluent area I couldn't afford) and all my money went on paying my way. He had thousands spare each month whilst I hd nothing, even though I paid slightly less as I couldn't manage 50/50 split with bills etc, all my money went on paying my way. So I had zero opportunity ott to save and when the relationship ended had very little in way of savings through no fault of my own.
OP, I actually think if you've contributed then you should morally be entitled to something. I can guarantee if you were married, sahm raising kids whilst he worked, or worked a lesser paid job, everyone would be saying you were entitled to half.