To think we won't see a Labour Government again for many years?

[Rosehip10]

Even discounting the changes in the ex-industrial former "red-wall" seats, no Labour leader has ever become Prime Minister without winning at least half the seats in Scotland. Even if Scotland does not vote for independence in the next few years, Labour is never going to recover there. If independence comes then it is academic anyway.

Combine that with the changes in the former Labour seats in the north (which I think will only continue) then a Government cannot be formed of London MPs, a few larger cities and some seats in university towns/cities.

I don't think Starmer is the most charismatic leader but I think any ppolitican would struggle to solve this. Very hard to try and appeal to ex-industrial seats AND young, metropolitan, middle class voters in London etc.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

Thank goodness.

There seems to be a dearth of talent on both government and opposition benches. Whether you loved them or hated them, Blair’s government was awash with big “beasts” and personalities, with lots of name recognition with the public - Prescott, Straw, Cook, Mowlam, Brown, etc. Compare them to the current crop there’s really no comparison.

@PriestessofPing

A Labour Government has just been re-elected in Wales but you’d probably not know that from many media outlets or from Labour in England. Actually made gains too. It’s not just about England and Scotland. Why has Wales stayed Labour? That would be something for Keir Starmer etc to think about perhaps.

Same reason SNP hold Scotland and Tories England. There is a crisis and they are in charge doing a reasonable job? If Starmer was running the furlough scheme the English wouldn't rush to the polls to boot his party out .

@DrinkFeckArseBrick - the short memories thing seems to work for some parties and not others. On another thread posters are saying they’d never vote LD again after the coalition. A view I’m familiar with as someone who’s volunteered on LD phone banks and had ranting from old supporters who are as angry as though it were yesterday. Fair enough, but it’s strange that other parties and politicians don’t crumble after committing similar crimes.

In the case of boris Johnson, the window between lie or blunder and absolution is imperceptible.

@musingloud

I honestly just dont understand the British public, I never will. Covid incompetence, Brexit shambles and such blatant cronyism and provable lies (border in the Irish sea for example) yet people have still fallen over themselves to give them more power. I reckon they will get an even bigger majority in 2024

You are asking the wrong question. You need to ask why, when the conservative party have done so badly (though at this election they are doing well with the vaccine programme), are Labour still so unelectable? That is what you need to answer. Railing against people for not voting for you and calling them thick is exactly why they are not voting for you. How many times do you need that lesson to be repeated before you grasp it?
If you want to know why people don't vote Labour look not further than yourself. It is exactly because of people like you that I stopped voting Labour. And I' m sad about that. But the party needs to start respecting voters if it wants to earn their vote. Yes, you have to EARN it.

The Tories have united all the right-wing voters, and the politically illiterate.

"Don't tell me what to think!""

We're not. We're asking you to actually think. Apply critical thinking. Voting Tory demonstrates an absolute lack of thinking at all.

You have the gall to demand respect when you're voting Tory? You could start by having some respect for yourselves and by actually demonstrating that you're neither thick, nor gulliible, nor ignorant, and by not voting for the shits who messed things up so badly in the first place.

Thing is, if you were all just jumping into the shitshow yourselves, no one else would mind so much. It'd be sad to see, but you voted to jump into the shit, so that's what you get. The problem is that you get to drag everyone else into the shitshow with you.... then you laugh about it when other people ask you why in the fuck you'd do that.

Keir Starmer is a credible leader for labour and yesterday was the first time I saw him rattled.

For me what is wrong with Labour is the sneering, self righteous, patronising left of the party. We are the righteous good people who know we are right within our bigoted agenda. The thread yesterday calling those who voted tory northern plebs spelled it all out loud and clear. The woke agenda is another issue, think Lisa Nandy dying a death on gmtv on this issue.

I am working class and northern so I must be thick and stupid. How can I belong to a party who believes this of me.

Another issue is the fact his shadow cabinet with the exception of Richard Ashworth who I have a sneaking admiration for, are nonentities. I mean name the shadow chancellor. My dh couldn't yet remember the days of Ed Balls - you certainly knew who he was. I think Angela Rayner is also a problem so closely affiliated with Rebecca Long Bailey and the left.

I think he is a credible, serious politician with a mountain to climb. He is too closely associated with metropolitan middle class voters and whilst likeable, has a lack of charisma. He had a big shock yesterday.
As for this thread, if you ask why, people will answer the question.

Sir Keir Starmer is a Marxist? Right....... NOPE

that's not what I posted - I am talking about the response to the election results by many party members - calling for a hard move to the left to capture lost votes

I am not anti lockdown, the way that chap was spoken to by Startmer sums up Labour, they want to lecture people about right think no matter what, even their ideas.

Labour seems to stand for forcing us all believe God puts souls in the wrong body or they are expecting everyone to worship certain people they don't want to, including people who should not be included - Muslims in a Jewish Sabbath meal if they aren't wanted - diversity type stuff like various lifestyles that not everyone wants for themselves or their children to choose, the destroying statues in order to show worship of a man in a gold coffin who was killed -dreadfully granted - the lifestyle of that man didn't mean he should be remembered and worshipped to the extent the whole country is forced to bow on a knee in a form of worship to him because someone else did wrong to him.

YANBU. I think we are probably looking at a second term for BJ, providing Brexit goes better than the doom-mongers predicted. It doesn't even have to go fantastically well. I just has to go better than terrible.

[quote MmeLaraque]@HesterBlue. You're absolutely correct about the Tories uniting all the right-wing voters. The UK has become an increasingly nasty place to be for many people. May started a Hostile environment policy, and Patel has continued it. Patel has pulled up the ladder behind her so fast, it's appalling.

The current govt is further right-wing than anything I've seen in the UK for a very long time. When I was a child (in the 1970s) it was considered shameful to be a member/supporting the BNP, or anyone so far right. At this point, millions of people are voting for exactly that.[/quote]
How so? Even the Guardian has stated that this is the most socialist government since World War II.

ScreamingBeans Me too.
I'll never forget Corbyn saying 'women should have women only train carriages' soon after he supported the idea of self identification (which was introduced by the Tories.)

If the Tories introduce an idea that creates strongly polarised opinions, its a tactic. Divide and conquer. Its very effective and people fall for it every time. They don't like a strong, co-ordinated opposition so they divide us.
They did it with Brexit and they did it again with self ID.

@ScreamingBeans

D'you know what, as someone who has voted for Labour every single election since I could vote until the last one, I no longer care.

Until they sort out their attitude to women and stop pretending men are women if they say they are, they can fuck off and let the party wither on the vine and die for all I care.

I don't care if the tories are in power till I die, if it means I never have to see a man in my changing room after a gym session or sleeping next to me on a hospital ward when I'm ill.

Transphobia in a public place. Is this what MN supports?

And there you have it. Supporting womens right to single sex spaces is not 'transphobic.'

Labour, and it’s supporters, have to stop going with the narrative that anyone who votes for any party but theirs, are all stupid and don’t know what they’re doing. That’s what happened with the red wall towns in the North, where a lot of abuse was directed their way after the last election. It’s a lazy and not a constructive argument, when they should be looking into the reasons why it happened. Every time i’ve switched on the news this last week, we have Starmer bleating on about who paid for Boris’s Wallpaper! Did he really expect to gain thousands of voters at this weeks elections based on that? Labour is no longer a relevant party in the U.K. in its current format. It might have been 40 years ago, but society is different now.

Further to a pp above though. Wales is another odd one. Drakeford was consistently poor in decision making during Covid, Wales has the highest death/million in the union, the worst NHS outcomes over several years now, and vilified in the media, and yet, is still voted in.

Keir Starmer is a credible leader for labour

Is he though? He’s very bland. He’s like a serious, competent senior civil servant in my eyes, not a leader.

I approve of the move towards the centre, but I think they’ll have to do better than Keir.

For goodness sake. It isn’t transphobia to have very valid concerns regarding self ID and single sex spaces.

Transphobia in a public place. Is this what MN supports?

If you aren’t going to listen, you aren’t going to get anywhere.

The Tories have united all the right-wing voters, and the politically illiterate. "Don't tell me what to think!"" We're not. We're asking you to actually think. Apply critical thinking. Voting Tory demonstrates an absolute lack of thinking at all. You have the gall to demand respect when you're voting Tory? You could start by having some respect for yourselves and by actually demonstrating that you're neither thick, nor gulliible, nor ignorant, and by not voting for the shits who messed things up so badly in the first place

Thank you for that brilliant demonstration of all the points I made.
Do enjoy the years and years of opposition you are bringing upon your party everytime you talk like this.

You have the gall to demand respect when you're voting Tory? Dear God, , you are explicitly stating you refuse to respect the very people you need to persuade to vote for you. And you accuse others of a lack of critical thinking. Dear God!

You accuse others of political illiteracy but I can't think of anything more politically illiterate than your strategy of ' I HATE YOU I HATE YOU AND I WONT' STOP HATING YOU UNTIL YOU VOTE FOR ME'

The racism, transphobia and generally vile attitudes in here are appalling. Some of you should be really ashamed of yourselves.

Transphobia in a public place. Is this what MN supports?

Since when is stating biological fact a phobia?

Yes, Screaming, I don't think Labour realises how many women (woman = noun, adult human female) voters they lost. I know a few personally.

@ScreamingBeans

D'you know what, as someone who has voted for Labour every single election since I could vote until the last one, I no longer care.

Until they sort out their attitude to women and stop pretending men are women if they say they are, they can fuck off and let the party wither on the vine and die for all I care.

I don't care if the tories are in power till I die, if it means I never have to see a man in my changing room after a gym session or sleeping next to me on a hospital ward when I'm ill.

If you're left of centre politically, and support women's safe spaces how do you vote? I'm stumped too. Be interesting to watch the London Mayoral results come in.

@MmeLaraque

The racism, transphobia and generally vile attitudes in here are appalling. Some of you should be really ashamed of yourselves.

This is the equivalent of the 'selfish' label flung at people who are not paranoid of Covid.

The racism, transphobia and generally vile attitudes in here are appalling. Some of you should be really ashamed of yourselves.

Is this your way of trying to drum up support for labour?

Because, you might want to rethink the strategy.