To think we won't see a Labour Government again for many years?

[Rosehip10]

Even discounting the changes in the ex-industrial former "red-wall" seats, no Labour leader has ever become Prime Minister without winning at least half the seats in Scotland. Even if Scotland does not vote for independence in the next few years, Labour is never going to recover there. If independence comes then it is academic anyway.

Combine that with the changes in the former Labour seats in the north (which I think will only continue) then a Government cannot be formed of London MPs, a few larger cities and some seats in university towns/cities.

I don't think Starmer is the most charismatic leader but I think any ppolitican would struggle to solve this. Very hard to try and appeal to ex-industrial seats AND young, metropolitan, middle class voters in London etc.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

The current govt is further right-wing than anything I've seen in the UK for a very long time.

That's just not true. They are far less right wing than the David Cameron, George Osborne, Iain Duncan Smith shower of bastards. I don't think George Osborne would have deliverred the Covid measures Rishi Sunak did.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

Transphobia in a public place. Is this what MN supports?

Since when is stating biological fact a phobia?

Yes, Screaming, I don't think Labour realises how many women (woman = noun, adult human female) voters they lost. I know a few personally.

This 100%. Labour voter all my life and just couldn't put my cross against them this time. Why should I support a party that doesn't support me?

musingloud and MmeLaraque last two posts sum up the whole thread for me. Thank you both for demonstrating the opposing views so well.

@TheKeatingFive

Keir Starmer is a credible leader for labour

Is he though? He’s very bland. He’s like a serious, competent senior civil servant in my eyes, not a leader.

I approve of the move towards the centre, but I think they’ll have to do better than Keir.

He is but he needs to be very charismatic to counter Tories at present. REasonable politics have disintegrated.

Labour need a new leader.
I said it about JC years ago too.

I'm just curious as to what positives people see in a tory government, genuinely. And not just 'I don't want Labour', but why tories? What ACTUAL benefits do they bring? Not vague promises of more jobs, which turn out to be zero hours contracts, but how do they help everyone?

There used to be a bloke at my gym, late 50s, ex army. Before the last election he'd always voted tory. It was only when he realised the policies adversely affected his son, who couldn't find a job, that he considered voting Labour. As someone who'd always voted for the good of the many, even if it wasn't necessarily to my benefit, it was a real opener to see him admitting that he only voted on his own interests.

I would like an effective opposition be that Labour or a new party. It’s going to take a lot of work and a bit of a clean sweep. New faces and voices ( or some of the older voices who have left in protest) are the only way forward.
I’m not sure that you have the self awareness to understand but MmeLaraque, you are really, really not helping to argue the case for Labour.

@MmeLaraque

The racism, transphobia and generally vile attitudes in here are appalling. Some of you should be really ashamed of yourselves.

All this response does is alienates people with valid concerns. It solves nothing.

Transphobia in a public place. Is this what MN supports?

Oh fuck off. Point out the transphobia in my post or pipe down. I've said I don't want to wake up in a hospital bed with a man in the next bed. Where's the transphobia in that? Why aren't you accusing me of androphobia or whatever it is the incels call it?

@MmeLaraque

The racism, transphobia and generally vile attitudes in here are appalling. Some of you should be really ashamed of yourselves.

They should be. Is it any wonder that they vote the way they do. I despair for the future of this country.

Most conservatives vote in their own interests.
In my area anyway.
The word ' conserve' sums it up. Wealth mostly and many old style ' working classes' are now quite wealthy. They do not identify with Labour at all.

@Thelnebriati

And there you have it. Supporting womens right to single sex spaces is not 'transphobic.'

The Labour party is telling us it is. Which is why I will never vote Labour again, unless they do a volte face on this crap.

Single sex spaces are allowed in law. Women have boundaries, get over it.

MmeLaraque -The racism, transphobia and generally vile attitudes in here are appalling. Some of you should be really ashamed of yourselves

I agree calling people thick, ignorant, illiterate and shits is a vile attitude and the people, like you, who do this should be ashamed of themselves.

YANBU I cant see what they could do to win
oh and well done @ScreamingBeans good to hear im not alone

ScreamingBeans

Exactly, we've had a decade of austerity, PIP has replaced DLA, Universal Credit has pushed people into destitution, homelessness is at an all time high, mental health is desperately underfunded, the NHS is being underfunded and sold off.

The last two elections should have been the easiest win for Labour in modern history. but they are too busy with ID politics to care.

@TheKeatingFive

The racism, transphobia and generally vile attitudes in here are appalling. Some of you should be really ashamed of yourselves.

Is this your way of trying to drum up support for labour?

Because, you might want to rethink the strategy.

"the current govt is further right-wing than anything I've seen in the UK for a very long time" They may talk like that but they still don't care about the border.

@musingloud. It's not my party. I'm not the idiot Turkey voting for christmas every day.

Nope, no one is shouting "I HATE YOU!" You wrote that, not me. Don't put words in my mouth. If you're an idiot, own it. Keep your projecting to yourself.

Idiots now.
Wow...

@osbertthesyrianhamster

Transphobia in a public place. Is this what MN supports?

Since when is stating biological fact a phobia?

Yes, Screaming, I don't think Labour realises how many women (woman = noun, adult human female) voters they lost. I know a few personally.

I’m one of them.

No one actually wants to be “working class” or whatever that used to represent though. I have definitely non middle class friends in terms of tastes and habits but they work hard own their own houses and like money.

The people I know that vote Labour only do so because they hate the Tory’s. There doesn’t seem to be any other idealology.
There’s an underclass who are struggling but unless Labour can have honest conversations about who they are and what would help , rather than blaming others for it, they won’t change a thing

Surely KS or whoever is just the front person for whatever is going on behind the scenes?

@Thelnebriati

ScreamingBeans

Exactly, we've had a decade of austerity, PIP has replaced DLA, Universal Credit has pushed people into destitution, homelessness is at an all time high, mental health is desperately underfunded, the NHS is being underfunded and sold off.

The last two elections should have been the easiest win for Labour in modern history. but they are too busy with ID politics to care.

Yep.

The LP have struggled to re-align their political raison d'etre in the face of the breakdown of class politics and left/ right alignments.

It's not that class no longer exists, it's that it's more complex than the LP wants to grapple with, so they've lazily aligned themselves with middle class identitarianism and it's a disaster.

mmeLaraque ah, throwing in the ‘racist’ label to try and validate your argument. It no longer works. People like you throw the word about so much, applying it to threads where there actually has been no racism, that it no longer has an impact.