To think we won't see a Labour Government again for many years?

[Rosehip10]

Even discounting the changes in the ex-industrial former "red-wall" seats, no Labour leader has ever become Prime Minister without winning at least half the seats in Scotland. Even if Scotland does not vote for independence in the next few years, Labour is never going to recover there. If independence comes then it is academic anyway.

Combine that with the changes in the former Labour seats in the north (which I think will only continue) then a Government cannot be formed of London MPs, a few larger cities and some seats in university towns/cities.

I don't think Starmer is the most charismatic leader but I think any ppolitican would struggle to solve this. Very hard to try and appeal to ex-industrial seats AND young, metropolitan, middle class voters in London etc.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

Blossomtoes

TheKeatingFive
I really think you are part of the problem if that's how you view reasoned debate and people who don;t agree with you.

She’s the absolute definition of the problem

Not listening
Hurling out insults instead of debating
Openly looking down on the people whose vote she thinks labour is entitled to
This. Kill debate because I disagree. The absolute epitome of Labour’s problem.“

Yep, this. Owen Jones on BBC news today. He’s learned nothing.

Denise , I saw Owen jones on bbc news earlier on today.
His rant was cut short.. It's true , he hasn't learnt anything.

This poem by Brecht, quoted btl in The Times sums it up perfectly.

After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed on the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could only win it back
By increased work quotas.
Would it not in that case be simpler
for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another"

I can see Boris calling a snap election on the back of Hartlepool and the feelgood factor of everything opening up. And winning. Keir has to go after this week's showing. Maybe pushing out the left of the party hasn't been a good move.

I doubt he'll call an election at the moment.
The tories will just carry on being popular and gloat a lot.

@MmeLaraque

MN admin: you've let this post rumble on for *how many pages, proving that many of your subscribers are as politically ignorant as people accuse them of being?

So many people in this thread could easily have been sucked in by Farage/UKIP/ the BNP and so on. How embarrassing for them, and MN. This would appear to be MN's core audience. Ick.

Are you a parody account or Tory bot? I find it hard to believe that anyone could be so utterly lacking in self-awareness.

To digress, to French politics, where Macron faces a big election next year, have a look at Sonia Mabrouk. There's an article in today's Times. She's second generation Tunisian, and she makes Marine le Pen look tame, plus she is is a news presenter, and very personable. What she has to say about the dangers Islam presents in France should be a salutory warning to any politician arguing for a diverse society. I think, personally, that European countries actively need to hang on to their Judaic-Christian beliefs and the legal systems that have been built gradually over 1000+ plus years, because the fairness that has accumulated over the millennium the work took is what attracts the world to want to be here.

A PP stated that she felt it was the right of any person, from any country, to relocate to any country they liked the idea of living in. And yes, I see the appeal: I quite like the idea of Provence. But you also have to take into account what the people who occupy that country think about immigration. what if that country has conditions like being able to buy a house outright as the minimum threshold to entry. Europe cannot solve all of the world's diasporas or accept all the people who think they would like to live here. The would be emigrants need to fix their own countries to make them fit to live in, but to do so will require taking on the warlords and power-brokers at home first.

@BonnieDundee

I can see Boris calling a snap election on the back of Hartlepool and the feelgood factor of everything opening up. And winning. Keir has to go after this week's showing. Maybe pushing out the left of the party hasn't been a good move.

What on earth for? He’s got a majority of 82 now.

I doubt Labour is ever going to pin a women's issue as a primary factor in any manifesto they may publish. Because Labour men view women as decoration and child care. There are many awesome women within the Labour movement, and have been for 60+ years, but not one has been allowed to occupy the top chair.

@ all MmeLaraque so annoying MN is not Twitter right?. So annoying you can’t just cancelled those who do not agree with you.

I can see Boris calling a snap election

Isn't the Fixed Term Parliament Act still in force? He'd have to get rid of that first. I think it should go, but I don't think he'll call an election.

1. As pp said, he doesn't need to; he's got a big enough majority.
2. People just want to get on with living their lives now, I doubt they want to be bothered with more elections.
3. Look what happened to Theresa May when she called an unnecessary election. The party in power nearly always gets stuffed when they do that. Pretty sure Boris won't make the same mistake.

I can see Boris calling a snap election on the back of Hartlepool and the feelgood factor of everything opening up. And winning. Keir has to go after this week's showing. Maybe pushing out the left of the party hasn't been a good move.

What on earth for? He’s got a majority of 82 now.

To get an even bigger majority and be in power till 2026. If he waits till 2024 the feelgood factor may have gone, unemployment could be high, cost of paying back all the covid outgoings will be felt and the country may at that stage they might want a change. At the moment Labour are completely unelectable.

@BonnieDundee I thought he would in power till 2024 anyway would he really want the hassle for just 2 more years?

My comment above about movement for people was particularly for @TheMoth.

I don't know smersh, maybe not but I'm not sure he'd definitely get elected in 2024. He would now. Whether he can AFFORD to be PM for that length of time is another matter

@MmeLaraque

MN admin: you've let this post rumble on for *how many pages, proving that many of your subscribers are as politically ignorant as people accuse them of being?

So many people in this thread could easily have been sucked in by Farage/UKIP/ the BNP and so on. How embarrassing for them, and MN. This would appear to be MN's core audience. Ick.

Perhaps you should be leader of the Labour Party. I can see it being very successful with you and your opinions at the helm. NOT

Owen Jones represents the worst of labour. They are vile to any who do not agree wholesale with them.

Until labour remember to include all. To be compassionate. To stop dismissing people who disagree as uneducated non listeners. They will remain in opposition.

Also. Women matter. We are women. Biological women. Please remember that.

Well said Xing

Labour needs to remember that self-id is not merely a philosophical issue for women but, at a more urgent level, one of female safety. Their blasé attitude to women's concerns just adds to the perception that Labour is an ivory tower party when it comes to crime.

Glad Angela Rayner's gone. Seen lots of, 'But she's from the North!' comments on Twitter, as if that stops her from being a vote-repellent.

lioncitygirl Sat 08-May-21 13:06:33
God I hope Shaun Bailey wins.

Bailey is almost as full of lies as Johnson. Anyway it looks as though Sadiq Khan will be pronounced mayor at around.10pm

I live in an area Labour lost in the last general election. The ex MP in on Twitter tonight banging on about socialism, her love of Corbyn and 'Blairite scum'. I suspect I fall into the later category. All the local campaigners are flattering her with their rush to agree with her.

There are too many people in the party who treat it like a religion rather than a competition for votes. Insulting people who have voted for you isn't the right approach.

The sooner they get someone charismatic with centrist / Blairite policies in charge the sooner they will win a majority. Unfortunately that means pissing off the far left, 'Labour is my religion' side of the party and dropping the minority approach.

Labour bad results were a woman's fault. I give up

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57037839?at_custom3=bbc_wales_news&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom4=0CD34954-B030-11EB-B454-21504D484DA4&at_medium=custom7&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_campaign=64

I'd quite like to vote for a centrist party, with a rational grip on economics, but the option is not currently available.

Labour just never learns, they don't listen to what people want and they are so insulting. I saw a labour MP on tv saying, people in Hrtlepool, "Didn't know what they were voting for"!
Really, so if you are poor and working class and especially if you are northern that means you are thick and stupid and have no idea what you are doing.
It's a bloody nerve.

Could we make one, here on MN? I may have had a glass of wine too many to be taken seriously.