To think we won't see a Labour Government again for many years?

[Rosehip10]

Even discounting the changes in the ex-industrial former "red-wall" seats, no Labour leader has ever become Prime Minister without winning at least half the seats in Scotland. Even if Scotland does not vote for independence in the next few years, Labour is never going to recover there. If independence comes then it is academic anyway.

Combine that with the changes in the former Labour seats in the north (which I think will only continue) then a Government cannot be formed of London MPs, a few larger cities and some seats in university towns/cities.

I don't think Starmer is the most charismatic leader but I think any ppolitican would struggle to solve this. Very hard to try and appeal to ex-industrial seats AND young, metropolitan, middle class voters in London etc.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

God I hope Shaun Bailey wins.

Test and trace is no longer shit though and hasn’t been for months. Testing in particular is brilliant now. Tracing is hard for every country when numbers are through the roof but that’s not Boris fault.
I’ve been pcr tested weekly since may last year and it was shit for a few months at the start and then in autumn again but most of the time it’s been fine and very good now. Lft’s are also plentiful and the system works very well. Most people testing experience is limited and they mostly think it is ok/ good (which it is) if they have the occasional experience of it whereas everyone has had or will have a vaccine or their close relatives have.
Test and trace being shit (or in my experience not shit) is not going to influence anyone’s opinion of Boris

I don’t really understand John McDonnell’s opinion that Labour lost Hartlepool as Labour isn’t left wing enough.

So, Labour aren’t left wing enough and as a result people voted Tory?
There something wrong with the logic in there somewhere.

@justasking111

If you want a labour government move to Wales would be my advice.

Yes, I was going to suggest that @Rosehip10 gets the title of this thread changed to "To think we won't see a Labour Government IN ENGLAND again for many years?"

Drakeford has done brilliantly. He is a good man.

@lioncitygirl

God I hope Shaun Bailey wins.

No chance. I am looking forward to seeing Fox humiliated too.

Labour does have an uphill battle for many, many reasons.

Structural and the voting system:

• the rise and simple availability of the SNP in Scotland significantly impacts on the viability of voting Labour there,
• the split left vote and (relatively) united right vote means that the majority of people in an area could want a left-wing MP but still end up with a ring-wing MP,
• there is currently gerrymandering happening which is specifically designed to redistribute currently Labour areas to increase the possibility of those areas turning blue,
• young people are not voting despite many being vocally left-wing.

(A few elections ago, we had a Tory government elected on around 27% of the possible vote - how is that a democratic system?)

Reputation:

• there is a generation of people who still blame Labour for the global banking crisis and link Labour with debt even though the debt has grown the most under Tory governments,
• because some elements of the Labour party and base are seen as "woke", this colours the rest of the party in a way that the racism/sexism/etc. on the right just doesn't seem to,
• the majority of the media is owned by supporters of right-wing policies and parties so the picture presented to the general public is often heavily coloured.

Psychological:

• the current Government has scandels and u-turns coming out of their ears but this rarely changes the mind of existing Tory voters. There is a psychological need to believe that you made the right decisions so they are willing to forgive/ignore a lot of obvious mistakes.

Policy:

• left policies are often more popular than right but they don't get voted for because people don't see them as realistic or affordable,
• Labour don't do enough to present themselves as an actual choice with a clear view of what a Labour government would look like.

Oh I loathe this sort of thread, peregina, the poster, whilst, unsavoury was illustrating a crisis that engulfed the eu.
Set the tragedy of the Syrian war aside and the other unrest in that region, the level of refugees were of a volume the eu could not cope with.

The repercussions are still being felt in those countries.
Overall we all need a far better plan to assist such refugees in future, properly, with dignity, and how they themselves would like to be supported.

However that was a poster, how can anyone equate a poster with the very real threat to the Jewish people under corybn?
How afraid were these communities to actually post letters in top papers begging us not to vote for Labour!

How can anyone brush this under the carpet, I can't understand it.

With a Farage Breaking Point poster which was straight out of the Nazi playbook, you will have difficulty convincing me that a good majority of his supporters were not racist or anti-semitic.

Peregrina you said that at the end of the war when Hitler’s atrocities were public knowledge, ‘most of the British upper classes were pro Nazi’
(Very insulting to the numerous upper class young men who fought bravely and/or gave their lives in the fight against Hitler)
So obviously you see fascism and anti Semitic everywhere.

Anti semitism, not anti Semitic.

I really resent the idea that the only way to make the country better for others is to vote Labour, and that anyone who doesn’t vote Labour is pushing disabled people off a cliff and eating caviar in front of starving urchins. Maybe, just maybe, people are doing all right under this government (especially if furloughed) and feel that perhaps the best thing to do for most people is more of the same?

Can’t remember the poster who said that perhaps Rishi and Priti might have done a good day’s work in their parents’ pharmacy or shop - but that was a breathtakingly racist post.

I am not,

And add to the list, the contempt they hold for their supporters? The hatred they seem to have for the UK?

@Nappyvalley15

Labour need to deal more effectively with the trans debate and stop pretending that only bigots don't believe biological impossibilities and there is no clash with women's rights. Until they do that they don't have a cat in hell's chance as it makes them seem authoritarian (and determined to control your thinking) and insane.

They have to find a way to be sensible on the trans issue and protect women's rights to single sex spaces.

Women are watching and do think about this issue. Some women don't care but enough do in every seat to make a difference electorally.

Polls will not tell them this because people may not like to admit this to pollsters.

Yes this. And although the issue of women's sex based rights is important to me, its not just about that issue, its the wider implications of Labour's approach to it that worries me. That MPs (eg. The Dawn Butler and Lisa Nandy examples above) can publicly make such ridiculous and downright dangerous statements because they have backed themselves into a corner because of ideological purity, just makes me wonder what other terrible things they would say or do out of fear of upsetting a certain faction.

So from this thread I have learned that everyone who has voted Tory are racist, sexist, transphobic, illiterate idiots, righto.

What is more likely, that a large proportion of the country has suddenly turned evil, or that the left is no longer representing their voters and has become mired in identity politics that is doing no good to anyone except some white men?

God I hope Shaun Bailey wins.

So do I. Khan has been fucking useless.

Yes, I don't like this idea that the only people who vote Tory are champagne sipping mansion dwellers or thick racists. That is clearly not the case when you look at election results.

@Puttingouthefirewithgasoline good point
hatred of the flag or national anthem or historical statues should be a guaranteed way to lose elections.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

I think this is true. We've have reports that many of the contracts placed by the current government have been made without much checking or competition with Boris's friends. Similarly with the Dyson phoning Boris to say 'what about an order pal', we may have needed them but just to skip the rules is normal now. Its not new, worked with govt outsourcing years ago and (pre Blair) and when we found regs that needed complying with a call a senior partner to a friendly minister usually saw them disappear. Its not new. I think the difference now is Boris knows nobody cares so he can quite blatantly do as he wants.

@YouJustFoldItIn I will never forgive Khan for endorsing the Trump balloon.

such a shame, always voted labour, won't ever vote cons though.

Dazzle one of the most detrimental things labour did was undermine legal aid and pave the way for it to be cut.

If regular people can't access help to understand the law, your cutting them adrift, and undermining their place in society

It's a disgrace that labour did that and getting legal support back, having rota of pro bono in courts etc should be a collective society main aim.

Across party we should all be demanding legal aid returns and more pro bono assistance.

To those who insist "But Corbyn has gone ...", it's not about him so much as Momentum and the members who kept voting for him, even after he'd lost the confidence of the parliamentary party and it became clear they'd never win anelection with Corbyn as leader

The problem is that very many are still there running things, handing out the usual tired insults and refusing to listen, so there's no reason to expect real change even with Starmer in charge

All of which is why they won't be elected without major reform - which grieves me, as yet another homeless voter

1. Where was I slagging anyone off? I was just possibly naively surprised that people only voted in their own interests.

1. Where did I say I'd always voted Labour? I said I'd always voted with the interests of the many in mind. If you extrapolate from that that I vote Labour, does that imply that Labour is the party which does actually serve the many?

And to the pp who said people are doing alright under a tory government. I work in a school. People, families, children, are not doing alright in some places under this government.

'Homeless voter. ' It's how I feel too.

The murdoch press has effectively silenced Starmer yet Corbyn's antics were literally in the headlines everyday.
Those who say they don't know what the LP stands for maybe do some research beyond reading the headlines. I read quite a bit of the last 2 manifestos and disagree there was nothing in them for the 'working class' person, many of the policies were appropriated by the tories, albeit in diluted form, many were ridiculed then slyly adopted. Billions to improve public services (mocked by theresa may but now suggested), legislation to ban advertising of junk food online/tv, introduction of energy price cap, creation of national infrastructure bank, more free child care, higher minimum wage, higher taxes on empty homes, green industrial revolution. I think there was quite a bit of listening to what ordinary people, even business owners wanted, but most just chose to regurgitate what the media says.

I don’t really get how the tories continue to get a free pass.

They’re corrupt - oh but all politicians are corrupt

They’re harming vulnerable people - yeah, but Labour would be worse.

We’ve given them over 10 years, aside from the vaccine rollout there’s been nothing positive from them but plenty that’s negative.

I can’t comprehend how people keep voting for it.