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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography?

1002 replies

Elizabetth · 14/11/2007 20:58

Particularly as porn has become so much more mainstream in the past few years, I'd have thought that people would be concerned about premature sexualisation of children. Also I'm surprised that so many women are fine with it given that the humiliation and degradation of women is the central theme of pornography. You only have to look at the titles to realise that.

OP posts:
goingfriggincrazy · 14/11/2007 21:39

me too norma *grins

policywonk · 14/11/2007 21:40

You get a sticker by telling me what the HELL you were doing on a porn set. Your sticker will say 'I betrayed Andrea Dworkin today (again)'.

normabutty · 14/11/2007 21:40

you have to mentions squirting OBM

harpsichordsahoy · 14/11/2007 21:40

yes porn has leaked into everyday culture
anal sex, group sex, casual sex, meaningless sex.
to talk of free choice/personal choice in this context is a bit of an oversimplification

LuckySalem · 14/11/2007 21:41

Well Done Clapham..

Elizabeth!! -- would you be quite happy watching your son or daughter have sex?!?!?! Either you are avoiding the points on these posts or are just here to wind everyone up!!

If everyone wants to watch their kids at work - would you have wanted to watch your son the hangman (or executioner) when that job was about?!?!?! probably not.

LuckySalem · 14/11/2007 21:42

Why BTW, have you been on a porn set Norma?

policywonk · 14/11/2007 21:42

Agree harpsi.

I think I object to porn on an emotional level, as well as a political one: for me sex is an intimate, emotional business, and I find it genuinely revolting to see it commodified. (I realise that this is not a strong argument for banning it, in itself.)

Elizabetth · 14/11/2007 21:43

"Pornography is not a new concept. In one form or another it has been around for centuries (millenia even!) What's the well-known epithet about 'the oldest profession in the world'? Sex work, and sex workers have been a part of society ever since you could describe a group of people with such a word, and this will continue as long into the future as well. Just because it is more accessible now, that is not an argument for bemoaning its presence. EVERYTHING is more accessible now, but to bemoan everything is simply a form of 21st-Century Ludditism that has no place in a forward-looking society."

Real women's bodies were never required to make pornography before. Also the porn you are describing was only accessed by the elite, now it can be seen by everybody, including a lot of children. And yes women have been bought and sold by men for millenia but that doesn't mean we have to tolerate it now. That's one of the reasons feminism came into being, to fight the idea that women were f*ck objects for men.

"There are many arguments for saying that some people in the pornographic industry are put there by economic strictures, and therefore trapped in a slightly self-destructive cycle. However, the vast majority of porn stars are there because they are very well paid for their work (upwards of £400 per day's shoot for 'basic' intercourse as far as I am aware, more for lesbian or anal shoots). If someone wishes to view the by-product of that industry in the comfort of their own home, then why should anyone be disgusted? "

£400 doesn't seem like an awful lot to sell the rights to your privacy and body. They could probably make more money in financial sales (and not to have to get screwed by strange men for it either). You aren't making it sound very attracive.

"A slightly self-destructive cycle" is an understatement and also not really accurate. Women in the porn industry are preyed on by pornographers.

"As to the premature sexualisation of children, what a nonsensical concept. Why not hop back a few hundred years and talk to the average 12 year old girl about 'premature sexualisation' - though of course you'd have to get past their husband in order to do so. .."

It was a bad thing then and it's a bad thing now. Surely you aren't arguing that because twelve year old girls got raped by adult men in the past it's OK to expose them to sexually explicit material now. That makes no sense.

OP posts:
goingfriggincrazy · 14/11/2007 21:43

I would suggest some sort of sexual therapy Elizabeth..due to your past-it helped me overcome my demons.

themildmanneredjanitor · 14/11/2007 21:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

policywonk · 14/11/2007 21:45

gfc - what is that supposed to mean?

normabutty · 14/11/2007 21:45

LS - no not been on a porn set. Well have had intimate pics of me taken but not in a professional setting. The squirting thing refers to my comments on another thread that PW found a bit too much!

onebatmother · 14/11/2007 21:46

squirting

moopymoo · 14/11/2007 21:46

thats quite unpleasant gfc. i think elizabeth has is spot on. does that mean i need therapy too? we better from a queue....

normabutty · 14/11/2007 21:46

OBM - you have embelish it a bit

Elizabetth · 14/11/2007 21:46

"Elizabeth!! -- would you be quite happy watching your son or daughter have sex?!?!?! Either you are avoiding the points on these posts or are just here to wind everyone up!! "

No of course not. The point I'm making is that if parents don't want to watch their children do a job, it's not a good job to do. Which leads on to........

"If everyone wants to watch their kids at work - would you have wanted to watch your son the hangman (or executioner) when that job was about?!?!?! probably not."

LOL. You must have had to really scrabble around to think of that one. Hangman is another job I wouldn't want my kid to do. Interesting you think that being a hangman is comparable to being in porn.

OP posts:
LuckySalem · 14/11/2007 21:47

oh right. Well congrats Norma.

YuckIHateCheeseStrings · 14/11/2007 21:47

I agree SP. It's the normalisation of porn epitomised by the SUN that really gets to me. It saddens me that our daughters (and sons) are STILL growing up with negative images of women in everyday media. I don't have a major prob with porn behind closed doors, but NOT in mainstream papers etc.

normabutty · 14/11/2007 21:48

Elizabetth - I wouldn't want to watch my children procreate but it doesn't mean I don't want dd to have children.

LS -

policywonk · 14/11/2007 21:48

I love elizabetth on this topic. She posts so that I don't have to.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 14/11/2007 21:49

2 ex-colleagues of mine were porn actors and did it because they derived great pleasure from it.

There is a lot wrong with the porn industry. This is undeniable. But to expand on a point that harpsi made. There is porn. There is erotica. There are pockets of abuse.

It's not ALL bad. But it's not all good either and the boundaries are becoming more and more blurred.

As an aside, I have no issues with partners looking at porn, as long as it doesnt involve illegal activities.

LuckySalem · 14/11/2007 21:50

Elizabeth - it's not the same, i'm using it as comparison cos that was the only thing I could think of that might make you listen!

A hangman is only the same as in some people agree with porn same as some people agree with the death sentence. It isn't black and white!

If you look through whats been written, alot of people who are "for" porn are agreeing there's bad aspects of it and listening to what others have to say, I don't see you doing that.

onebatmother · 14/11/2007 21:50

gfc - mean (and also incomprehensible?)
Good post eliz.
have been on porn set for work purposes and all those who say they'd be happy-ish for children male or female to be involved, and making sure that they were well paid (£400 for fucking a stranger - are you mad!!) are absolutely talking out of their squirting arses.

sticker pol?

ClaphamLauren · 14/11/2007 21:50

"It was a bad thing then and it's a bad thing now. Surely you aren't arguing that because twelve year old girls got raped by adult men in the past it's OK to expose them to sexually explicit material now. That makes no sense."

With the greatest of respect, I don't feel that anyone here is able to tell what was a 'good thing' and a 'bad thing' about past societies. It was the 'normal' thing then, in fact it was looked upon as positive to be married early, just as a minimum age of 16 for sex is the 'normal' thing now. Any deviation of that is, therefore, 'abnormal', and looked down upon by society.

So many of the 'rules' we hold so dear are simly constructs of our society. One could argue that 'things have moved on', or 'we've learned from experience', but I would not be so arrogant as to suggest that in anything other than a technological sense; and, as technology is exactly the method by which this 'new evil' is being prophagated, would you even want to say that?

In addition, I'm afraid most feminists would argue STRONGLY with you regarding your views on how feminism came about, indeed about your views on pornography in general - the vast majority of feminists I know (and I know quite a few from my Sociology studies!) are very pro-porn as they see it as women claiming economic and artistic control over their bodies.

LuckySalem · 14/11/2007 21:50

Norma - I meant congrats on the photos - I'll shut up now! lol

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