to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography?

[Elizabetth]

Particularly as porn has become so much more mainstream in the past few years, I'd have thought that people would be concerned about premature sexualisation of children. Also I'm surprised that so many women are fine with it given that the humiliation and degradation of women is the central theme of pornography. You only have to look at the titles to realise that.

Of course men fantasise about picking up a woman/women that are happy and willing, the majority of men don't get sex that easily! It's a fantasy, they don't fantasise about hurting people or scaring them

Same as I fantasise about being THE most beautiful person in the world and men (simon cowell at the moment) falling at my feet, it just doesn't happen!

Why can't you accept fantasy being separate from real life and that fantasy doesn't mean you want to act it out (though Simon, if your reading ....lol)

You took that off Wikipedia minority rules which is not a reliable source, anybody can edit an entry (it was also set up by someone who made their money from porn as a side note). There is no citation on the article. If you've got real evidence that she duped the pornographers I'd be interested to see it.

"I would be really grateful if other MNers could be brave enough to have a look."

Well I was 'brave' and did click on the Bangbros site and found actually it backed up what Elizabeth says.. this was one random click and it led me to a preview (Monica) which called a woman in a schoolgirl's outfit 'this gorgeous bitch', said it would 'hurt nothing but this slut's insides' (is that vile, or what?) and promised us a view of Ramon, their resident 'pussy destroyer' in action.

Horrible language, nasty attitude. Worse than I expected, to be honest

Fantasy exists in someone's head and imagination. Pornography is done to real women's bodies. In no way is it a fantasy.

E - pornography is not new and it wasn't just a few drawings on cave walls. I would challenge you to find anything more horrific in modern porn that you will find in 120 Days of Sodom. If you only object to a specific type pornography meaning live action hardcore porn of the last 20 or 30 years then please just say so and we'll all know where we are.

I agree that most (but not all) pornography is imagined, created and consumed by men and as such usually reflects a male viewpoint. No issue there.

I disagree strongly that exhibitionism is not a facet of female sexuality. It expresses itself in many more subtle ways than "sitting in her front room masturbating for the passing public" (although I believe a few women do this for the passing online public as someone mentioned earlier in the thread).

I don't know much about the Linda Lovelace case - did she make a formal charge? If she did I agree that it should have been investigated and tried in a criminal court.

Iran may have a large underground porn audience but porn is certainly not officially tolerated there. See today's Guardian for small example books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2211690,00.html

You seem to be suggesting that the situation is worse (and I would agree) in Iran, Victorian England etc where there is a low tolerance of pornography. But aren't you arguing for low tolerance?

Have to go now but will read with interest tonight...

MR - Simon Cowell?? That really is depraved.

Also women regularly report that their male partners try to get them to do what they've seen in porn. I've got quite a few friends who have had this experience.

Here

Is her IMDB biog that backs up her duping the photographers, generally a reliable source.

Actually I've had it too come to think of it back in the day but I told him to fuck off.

I've asked my boyfriend to do things that I have seen in porn, external influences of course impact peoples personal lives. It's like I could ask him to cook me dinner and give me a massage like in Mills and Boon books, what is the difference?

What things have you asked your boyfriend to do Lauren?

The boyfriend I had told me he wanted to have anal sex and slap my breasts - he was a huge porn hound. I told him to fuck off. Those things are harmful and degrading and sexually abusive. Nobody who loves someone wants to hurt them or humiliate them but he did.

Elizabeth - my DH keeps pesturing me to have anal sex but the thought turns my stomach. I have never done it with anyone and have no intentions of either.

A friend of mine tried it with her DH and she said it was extremely painful and hated every minute of it and this is a couple that are very sexually adventurous and into swinging.

Anal is disgusting and I don't know why guys love it so much.

Anal sex is not something you like or want to do, it isn't depraved or humiliating. Some women like it

Slapping also isn't degrading between 2 consenting adults, it isn't for you but you can't blame porn for it

Anal sex isn't painful if done gently with someone you trust

Again, just becasue soemthing isn't for you, it isn't wrong

Oenophile, I meant to say, I'm sorry you saw that. DaddyJ's claims that BangBros raison d'etre isn't hatred of women and the physical and sexual humiliation of them are just incredible.

"Pussy destroyer" - that is just out and out misogyny, they don't even need to pretend to disguise it any more like they did in the more old-fashioned type of pornography.

"Anal sex is not something you like or want to do, it isn't depraved or humiliating. Some women like it"

Why do women keep getting used as the shield for men to hide behind? MEN LIKE IT. MY BOYFRIEND WANTED TO USE MY BODY AND HUMILIATE ME (ALM is reporting exactly the same thing). He wouldn't have taken it up his own bottom but he sure wanted to stick his penis into mine (I bet Norma's husband's bum is still virgin territory too).

"Slapping also isn't degrading between 2 consenting adults, it isn't for you but you can't blame porn for it"

Yes I can and I do. I wasn't into S&M, I was a fairly innocent 19 year old (or at least innocent compared to what 19 year olds know nowadays) yet he thought it would be fun to slap my breasts. He wanted to hurt me, and he wanted to hurt them - a delicate female part of me, a part that nature made to care for and nurture babies. It was him who would get the cheap thrills out of my pain. He watched and looked at porn and it had become normalised for him that as a man he would hurt and degrade a woman.

"Anal sex isn't painful if done gently with someone you trust"

Whatever. The question is why so many men try to persuade women into it. When I was nineteen I knew one woman who did it and she had been severely sexually abused as a child and had very few boundaries. Now every woman is expected to service men in this manner. Where do you think that idea came from, because the only place I know where anal sex is widely promoted is pornography and men's magazines.

"Again, just becasue soemthing isn't for you, it isn't wrong"

Don't tell me what my experiences were. That guy was an asshole and a misogynist, I was just too young and naive to spot it. Porn supported and encouraged him in his worldview.

BTW I'm putting my experiences out here not because they are unique, but because they are common. Women just aren't expected to talk about this kind of stuff. We're supposed to remain ashamed and silent. The only position women are allowed to take is "rah-rah I love porn, I love humiliating sex". That's where the repression is - not with the horror- sex that some men are turned on by.

Excellent post Elizabeth.

Having just read all of this thread, just want to say my views on it.

Some porn is violent etc, but some isn't. Myself and dh filmed ourselves once, often watch it together - normally laughing. I did not do it for him.

We have also had anal sex, again, I did not do it for dh. It did not hurt, and do not understand how this is degrading tbh.

"Elizabeth - my DH keeps pesturing me to have anal sex but the thought turns my stomach. I have never done it with anyone and have no intentions of either."

I'm really sorry to hear this ALM. It's a lot easier to tell a boyfriend to get lost than it is a DH.

"A friend of mine tried it with her DH and she said it was extremely painful and hated every minute of it and this is a couple that are very sexually adventurous and into swinging."

Yeah, pain often gets a mention when women are talking about their experiences of anal sex. I'm weird because I thought sex was supposed to be pleasurable, not punishing, and that if it hurts it's not fun therefore there's no point in doing it.

It sounds as if you have had very bad experiences, which I am about, but please do not put everyone who is in the industry as being degraded, or that anyone who likes porn is a perv.

I like my hair being pulled, I just like the sensation... like I know women who like the sensation of anal sex. Just like lots of women don't enjoy any sort of penetrative sex because that doesn't bring them to orgasm.

It's about choice. Choice to watch and star in porn and you can make the choice not to be interested in it, however, that doesn't mean there should be a blanket ban on something that many people derive pleasure from. Next you'll be wanting to ban sex toys...

I am worried about the increasing violence in porn - like I mentioned in another post. DH and his perv mates at work like to see the hardcore porn -like the stuff Elizabeth described. I personally find this very worrying. What will be next, women being murdered in porn films? Will that turn men on?

You know I'd never even heard of hair-pulling until I started realising how bad porn was and objecting to it in the past few years.

Hair-pulling is what naughty little children do to one another in the playground. How on earth can that be a turn-on? I remember it hurting a lot. Did you see it in porn to get the idea ClaphamLauren?

Also I haven't said anything about banning porn. It's a strawman argument. I wish you'd address what's actually been said e.g. why do men want to see women having ass to mouth done to them, than inventing stuff.

'Yeah, pain often gets a mention when women are talking about their experiences of anal sex. I'm weird because I thought sex was supposed to be pleasurable, not punishing, and that if it hurts it's not fun therefore there's no point in doing it. '

i dont like this attitude that women dont enjoy pain full stop and only participate to please men.

anal sex can be used to humiliate and degrade,but it can also be fun and pleasurable,it depends who you are doing it with!

LOL, I cant believe this thread is still going on.
I like hair-pulling too claphamlauren, I also like my wrists tied tightly, and actually fight against the bindings so they chaf, but guess what, Elizabetth I didn't see it in porn.

I actually discovered the hair pulling by accident, when DP leant on me, I also grab his hair, and he likes it too.

Elizabetth, I really can;t be bothered to argue with you anymore but please don't try telling everyone what women do and don;t like in the bedroom, oh and my best friend loves taking it up the arse, her exs penis was too big, but her current fellas isn't, and she does it alot.
Anal stimulation can in fact cause a very bloody nice orgasm.

Elizabetth, your sex life must be very dull

Hairpulling, yes pleasurable

Anal sex yes pleasurable for some

Porn didn't invent this stuff, anal has been around since the beginning of time, people experimented without getting the idea from porn