To ask if you personally judge people who dress alternatively?

[getyourfreakon]

As per the thread title.
Yes, Coronation Street has highlighted the issue. I'm what would be referred to as a "goth". I'm also a mother of one.
What are your feelings on the subject?

I do. But not negatively

I just form a slight judgement on their inclinations.
I dress alternatively and I expect people would be judging me in that way too.. at the end of the day, what we wear is how we market ourselves to the world and

No
What a dull world it would be if everyone’s the same

@lottiegarbanzo I don’t do it to be noticed though, I’d rather not be noticed by anyone ever, but that’s not realistic. So I suppose what I’m doing is hiding behind a look. It’s a small but significant difference.

@MistressoftheDarkSide loving your story of the old lady calling you a witch and your response. I had a similar moment walking along a street with my brother in a certain town in northern Ireland one Sunday morning in the late 80s - two soberly suited elderly men walking by called me a Jezebel! The old judgy bastards!! I think I just laughed at the time, but afterwards I wished I had said something like "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". "Be blessed" is a fine comeback too!

@OwlBeThere I think you're imbuing my words with implied meaning of your own, in order to narrow their sense to one you can disagree with and that actually, we're agreeing.

I think you're saying that you dress that way to be noticed for what you wear as armour, as a tactic to deflect attention from who you are, what you might say, or anything else about you.

You may wish to go unnoticed but, rather than dress blandly, blend in and hope for the best, you've chosen to manage your image very self-consciously. That is dressing to be noticed, even if for the statement made by your dress, only.

I suspect a lot of goths are the same; seeking to hide in plain sight by presenting a sort of visual black hole; attracting people's attention but reflecting nothing back.

I agree with those who say that many people express themselves through their clothes so it seems odd to expect people not to notice if you dress in a distinctive way and think of you as a distinctive woman or a woman who wants to be thought of as distinctive

Couldn't care less as long as you don't wear PJ's to the supermarket.

However I'm curious - I rarely see goths employed in the majority of jobs I might come into contact with - education, medicine, the law, police, office workers, media, supermarket workers and often wonder why.

Also wonder when and why a goth decides to become a non goth.

Anybody?

I admire them. I love funky people. I've always dressed to blend in to a crowd but am getting more alternative as I get older thanks to some hip inspiring colleagues. Always wanted dreadlocks and a nose ring.

My best friend at 17 was a goth and I was more pretty girl (cringe) but we would go to this cool goth pub it was brilliant there would be me there in pretty dresses with some of the best people I've ever met.

I love a strong and fun look. I've experimented with goth in my youth but mainly I love colour and patterns too much. I love it when people have obviously enjoyed almost crafting their outfit and look. I can totally understand why someone might want to play it safe by sticking to fashion and use looks of famous people.

@StoneofDestiny I know loads of goth lawyers and a few doctors too. In fact aside from police I know goth or alt types in all the professions you listed.

We’re everywhere. It’s more than just a look and we can do business attire if we want to or need to.

Now I’m using the very loose definition of goth that refers to the emo goth phase too not the full on 80s wedding dress wearing living dead goths although I know plenty of those too… including a prominent judge!

Also wonder when and why a goth decides to become a non goth.

I'm not sure non or ex goth is the right term. I don't wear the clothes any more, but I still love the music and a lot of the other cultural elements.

I stopped wearing the clothes because
A. They're expensive
B. I feel like you can't half arse the look. You need to do the clothes, the hair, and the makeup. Which requires time and energy I just do not have.

I know technically I could tone it down, but the reason I liked wearing goth stuff was for the over the top theatricality, so I wouldn't enjoy it without that, and so there's no point. You can guarantee I go all out at Halloween though!

[quote lottiegarbanzo]@OwlBeThere I think you're imbuing my words with implied meaning of your own, in order to narrow their sense to one you can disagree with and that actually, we're agreeing.

I think you're saying that you dress that way to be noticed for what you wear as armour, as a tactic to deflect attention from who you are, what you might say, or anything else about you.

You may wish to go unnoticed but, rather than dress blandly, blend in and hope for the best, you've chosen to manage your image very self-consciously. That is dressing to be noticed, even if for the statement made by your dress, only.

I suspect a lot of goths are the same; seeking to hide in plain sight by presenting a sort of visual black hole; attracting people's attention but reflecting nothing back.[/quote]
But that’s not what I’m saying. I don’t think I’m explaining it well though.
I didn’t begin to dress this way because of any thought to attention at all. It happened because it was a style I liked in others. I was a huge fan of the cure, and hair metal bands and punk rock and funk rock and so I imitated those styles of clothing....and with that came a realisation, a) less people (aka men) looked at me inappropriately, I was very shy and insecure and I liked that it stopped those looks. And also any looks I did get were not at my body, but things on my body including hair and that made me feel more anonymous than if I wore jeans and a Tshirt.
So your supposition that it’s to be noticed for what I wear isn’t the same as what I’m saying that it helps me not be noticed as much. And if I am noticed it’s for something fleeting and changeable that isn’t me. Or at least I can convince my brain of that which as an introvert who would be entirely invisible given the choice suits me.

I hope that explains it better. That said I’m sure there are many people who dress goth who do like to be noticed, the same as there are people who dress more fashion conscious, or who dress up with glamorous clothes who like to be noticed. And many who just enjoy it for its own sake.

I miss the 80s only in the sense that literally anything went sartorially speaking, and people treated getting dressed as theatre. I miss the punks with green Mohicans that took up several bus seats just with their hair alone 😁. The closest I get to the spirit of that era now is checking out ‘street style’ blogs and Whitby goth weekends!

What makes me a bit sad is when people trudge around in grey trackie bottoms, hoodie, baseball cap combos - fair enough if that’s what they’re into, but there are other colours available.

@MedusasBadHairDay, I work a professional job, and other the fact I have brightly dyed hair sometimes and maybe my nose piercing you’d have no clue what I look like outside of work if you met me there.
I also think there are many people in their late twenties/early 30s who dressed emo as it was fashionable for a while there who then moved on to the next fashion, people my age range (I’m 40) and older who dressed goth more as stepping outside of fashion of the time who are more likely to have retained the look as it wasn’t about a fashion trend for us. So it’s different.

@bluebluezoo

Nope.

I prefer to see “alternative” dress and self expression than all the tanned, hd eyebrowed, heavily contoured and drag queen lips on girls these days.

I like interesting

I agree totally. I hate the pouty lipped , fake tanned clones everywhere. Bring on alternative!

Also wonder when and why a goth decides to become a non goth

The goth scene in my old town was toxic and bitchy as hell. I didn't want anything to do with them anymore.

@Waxonwaxoff0 the name alternative comes from the root of the fashion, ie alternative music, is so called as the bands were signed ti indie levels and not played on commercial radio stations. It was an alternative to what was popular/chart music in the 80s. I agree that not all goths are completely unique so they often still have a look similar to other goths. That’s not what the term means.
In the same way ‘indie’ music so called as it was made by small independent record labels, and when that stuff became the mainstream it was still referred to as Indie even though it wasn’t independently produced anymore.

I know some alternative dressers who are my close friends and are absolutely lovely but some of the things they wear make me quietly wonder if they’ve got dressed in the dark or if they own mirrors.

I love them to death and wouldn’t even tell my other half my thoughts but yes I do judge and really really wish I didn’t ( I’ve only ever known them as alternative and became friends with them when they were alternative and I’d never want them to change as people! Their dress sense never put me off knowing them but I do rise an eyebrow privately at times though)

So you're wearing armour but you're not putting very much effort into it, is what I read there @OwlBeThere

The OP was about judging people who dress in an alternative way. There's an unspoken implication that these people are noticeable. Otherwise why would it occur to anyone to judge them?

My 'they wouldn't bother if they didn't want to be noticed' comment was a response to that.

What you seem to be saying is 'I see myself as alternative but I am barely noticeable. What is more, being alternative helps me to go unnoticed, so avoid judgement'. In which case either OP's premise does not include you, she's talking about more flamboyant alternative looks, or you are challenging her premise, saying that looking alternative can deflect judgement by deflecting attention. Which is interesting.

Also wonder when and why a goth decides to become a non goth

For me I got fat after pregnancy and lost any interest in clothes. Comfy drawstring waists here! i still tend to wear black though.

Also i found the little goth shops that were common in every town have now gone, and unless you go really out your way, high streets are all mainstream. I used to know where all the little shops selling tasselled skirts and incense were, they’re all gone. I went to Cockburn st in Edinburgh recently, nothing. Even big centres like the Metrocentre in Newcastle had little “alley’s” with a few jingly shops.

There just aren’t the places to shop.

@lottiegarbanzo

So you're wearing armour but you're not putting very much effort into it, is what I read there *@OwlBeThere*

The OP was about judging people who dress in an alternative way. There's an unspoken implication that these people are noticeable. Otherwise why would it occur to anyone to judge them?

My 'they wouldn't bother if they didn't want to be noticed' comment was a response to that.

What you seem to be saying is 'I see myself as alternative but I am barely noticeable. What is more, being alternative helps me to go unnoticed, so avoid judgement'. In which case either OP's premise does not include you, she's talking about more flamboyant alternative looks, or you are challenging her premise, saying that looking alternative can deflect judgement by deflecting attention. Which is interesting.

I dunno what you’re reading but that’s not what I said. I put as much effort in as in feel like on the day. But there is effort in that j pick clothes j like from alt shops, I do gothic make up looks. Where did I say I don’t put effort in. I look as alt as any other goth. So its very obvious I am a goth type. I am saying that for me I feel like the look makes ‘me’ unnoticeable, in that my hair and my clothing are not me. I’m just saying I don’t do it to attract attention.

@bluebluezoo yes that’s a good point. Doubly difficult if you are plus size as the online retailers are usually too small.

I think you may be getting a lot of unhelpful posts here.

The reality is that there are very few (no) goths in many walks of life. So I’d be surprised to see a goth doctor, goth lawyer, goth accountant. I’ve never come across a goth parent at private schools ( DCs so far rack up 5 between themselves). Goth isn’t mainstream. It will put some people off. Particularly, perhaps, parents of other ethic or religious backgrounds.

I don’t really understand goth, so to me it looks like a flight of fancy. I don’t understand anyone picking this made-up culture over their family. This would signal very weak family bonds - then I would judge that.

*ethnic not ethic!