To despair that people still vote Tory given their track record and outright dishonesty?

[flashbac]

I don't get it. Its depressing. We deserve better than this surely? Why give them the green light? What kind of society do we want? One where liars get our approval?

Ed Miliband as hard left? That's how far down the far right rabbit hole anti trans ideology takes you, personally I think it's quite perverted that the MN gc feminists have an obsession with wanting to know what's in people's underwear

YABU we actually have quite a weak opposition who need to communicate policies voters will like, and they haven’t been effective at this. And I say that as someone who leans towards the left.

Because there is no credible alternative.

@JustAnotherPoster00

Ed Miliband as hard left? That's how far down the far right rabbit hole anti trans ideology takes you, personally I think it's quite perverted that the MN gc feminists have an obsession with wanting to know what's in people's underwear

What a ridiculous post.

I have no idea what this is meant to be about other than just SM juvenile provocation, but it’s not focussing on legislation which is very important.

@Blackberrycream

The tone deafness of proclamations of Tory/ evil, Labour/good and Corbyn being a good, honest man are a big part of my suspicion of The Labour Party. The EHRC report was damning and it happened under his watch. Starmer rightly called it as a shameful part of the party history yet threads like this make it clear that there is still wilful denial of the issues among many supporters. That is what I find so worrying. Nobody on this thread has said Johnson is a good and honest man. Most are quite aware of his many faults and faults in the party. The difference is they are not involved in some sort of mass denial and some simplistic notion that voting Labour gives you the moral high ground despite the appalling events of the last few years. They are looking at both options and deciding it is the least worst option.

This and a lack of ambition at every level with labour mean I can't vote for them.

It is mindboggling that in this area they are the least worst option.

The fact that the left resort to insults so often is just evidence of a weak position.

Strengthen where you stand and you won’t have to be so aggressive and reductive.

There are many who voted centre left with Blair who would do so again. If only Labour didn’t think they had any high ground and actually listened to what people are saying.

@TheWashingMachine

Wallpapergate is just a sign that top politicians are paid too little in my opinion. Seeing as running the country is a pretty important job they should be paid better to attract the best talent and make salaries competitive with top level salaries in other sectors like banking, law etc. It would also mean that the playing field would be more level as people from all social groups could enter the fray not just those with an additional private income or a wealthy spouse.

A very odd conclusion. I think most people could manage on Boris' salary and an Extra £30K a year for flat decorations. He will make a fortune on the after dinner circuit and advising companies on how to get unfair influence after he leaves - look at Cameron! I cannot agree that he is inadequately remunerated because he cannot apparently afford to spend £200K on wallpaper and sofas for his flat. That's obscene when people are going to food banks.

@MarshaBradyo

The fact that the left resort to insults so often is just evidence of a weak position.

Strengthen where you stand and you won’t have to be so aggressive and reductive.

There are many who voted centre left with Blair who would do so again. If only Labour didn’t think they had any high ground and actually listened to what people are saying.

Ed Miliband as hard left? That's how far down the far right rabbit hole anti trans ideology takes you, personally I think it's quite perverted that the MN gc feminists have an obsession with wanting to know what's in people's underwear

Deary me.

Elections today are mostly for local councils. Around here a nematode worm with a blue rosette would get elected.
Without any apparent hint of irony, our local Tory Councillor (who will get re-elected) says that she will continue to "fight" central government for more money as they have consistently shafted us over the years.

So a Tory is fighting an unfair central Tory government. If they are a party and if they had any decency surely they show some loyalty to their councillors and the people who support them here year in year out?

labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-launches-labours-2021-national-election-campaign/ Here's what they've said. admittedly, it's a little bit thin, but I like what I see here. When people say Labour has 'done nothing' I wonder if they are forgetting that Labour aren't in power? The Tories are in power and looking at what they've 'done' is therefore relevant: contracts awarded (to their friends) without due process /having to be forced into doing anything 'good' for the ordinary people e.g. free school meals/being less than transparent about how thy personally raid the coffers (think Johnson & Carries' wallpaper)/only making sensible and scientifically approved decisions about Covid when they really had no alternative, so they locked down too late TWICE!/claiming that 'they've done the vaccine and deserve praise for its success, whereas it's the NHS who deserve the praise/calling Testn'Trace 'NHS' when it's nothing of the sort and the NHS therefore get the flack for its shortcomings/ being twwisty with the figures about hospital building and police and nurse recruitment/not giving proper wages to NHS staff/reducing Arts education funding by 50% and managing to get us into a 'deploy gunboats' situation in Jersey because their Brexit deal was crap. And that's all just for starters.

The vaccine and its success will keep the tories going for years yet. ' they handled the pandemic well ' will be became historic fact (!) and people will forget the other things that went wrong.
It's already started talking to people around my way. Labour will be in the wilderness for a while yet but then I do live in a Tory stronghold.
The tories always sack their lack lustre leaders when they don't perform.
Labour hang on to their ones it seems :(
It's a rocky road for them I think despite what they may be saying now.
I've heard in the last 24 hours from a few people :
' Johnson paid for his own flat'
' they have done well with the vaccine'
More money for the NHS.
Just for starters..
Labour have a job and half disputing any of this and look credible ( esp when they lose Hartlepool , which they will )
Who'd be a politician!

It's the sort of views like yours OP that have pushed me away from the left. I'm not alone. Many people are sick of the gobby self righteous left yet you STILL dont get why the conservatives are in/brexit. Not as socially bright as you think you are OP

I agree with you @flashbac but without even reading the other comments I just KNOW there are going to be people lining up to defend this corrupt bunch of cunts we have in government.

But I’m on your side. Fuck the Tories.

Yes, where I live would elect any Tory as well. Our Tory MP does not even live here and shows very little interest in the area at all. Our last Tory MP told my friend who went to him over a local issue, that he does not do local issues. Yet they still keep voting for them.

@beethecrackon24995

It's the sort of views like yours OP that have pushed me away from the left. I'm not alone. Many people are sick of the gobby self righteous left yet you STILL dont get why the conservatives are in/brexit. Not as socially bright as you think you are OP

This with bells.

Well I've just voted.

And party politics didn't enter into it as I voted for the local candidate who addressed the issues that matter to me.

ALL of the government are corrupt and dishonest imo.

It’s terribly depressing to read time and again that Johnson “did the best he could”.

If this was his best then dear god we’re screwed .

@LemonRoses

SmokedDuck you cannot be serious that the Tories have moved left.

They have moved so far to the right but selling a softer message, they’ve not actually delivered on their funding lies either.
Where are those forty new hospitals that were promised?
Where is the crock of gold from Brexit?

Their treatment of immigrants and asylum seekers is abhorrent. Patel’s ideas really are on par with the National Socialist Party.

The corruption is disgusting.
The flag waving is clever jingoism, but so insincere and means nothing. If they cared about our nation they wouldn’t have wrecked the GFA or trashed our fishing industry, reduced our place on the world stage and prevented essential services getting staff.

Here is the thing. If you don't understand why a more traditionally leftist position would tend to be pro-Brexit, you simply aren't going to understand what I mean when I say they are better representing the interests of the people who used to vote Labour.

That's pretty much what I see again and again in this discussion. You have a bunch of people who think the current Labour Party liberal positions are the same LP that has always existed, and they just aren't.

Now, the Conservatives aren't the old LP either, but some of their positions are closer and maybe more importantly, they are more sympathetic - they don't all people names for holding views that have always been leftist views, and they don't tell people they don't want their votes.

@beethecrackon24995

It's the sort of views like yours OP that have pushed me away from the left. I'm not alone. Many people are sick of the gobby self righteous left yet you STILL dont get why the conservatives are in/brexit. Not as socially bright as you think you are OP

I'm not a lefty though but do carry on. Insults are always used when people can't justify their arguments.

@4cats2kids

YABU we actually have quite a weak opposition who need to communicate policies voters will like, and they haven’t been effective at this. And I say that as someone who leans towards the left.

Truth in that but it doesn't justify voting for a party that lies to this extent and relishes in getting away with it IMHO.

I don't get it either.

Johnson could eat a kitten on Good Morning Britain and still gain votes.

SmokedDuck Please don't patronise me - I understand perfectly why those in the traditional labour lands might be pro-Brexit and how they have come to feel that way. That doesn't in any way make the Tories any less far right in their current policies. Unfortunately they have set an agenda of them and us, blaming 'furriners' for all things that is in fact the fault of a government who are opposed in principle to good welfare systems and a fairer society.
The Tories have control of the press and sell their lies and the gullible go there. They believe a deal with India will replace the losses from the EU and that Europeans are stealing our jobs, our houses and filling our hospital wards. They don't hear the truth that the NHS can't now recruit easily from Europe, that our farmers are flying in Eastern Europeans to avoid rotting crops, that our fishing and dairy industries have been devastated and that we cannot staff the hospitality industries - even though we want them all open.

Round here, voting Conservative is a protest vote.

No matter how useless the Labour council are, no one will vote for anyone but them.

Obese and ineffectual transwoman with no agenda, objectives and a dubious voting history - Yup

Obese and barely together mum, who posts nutty memes on Facebook, too wrapped up in children and domestic issues to be effective as a councillor - Yup.

Go-getter 'hun', in bodycon mini dresses, with her fingers in many, dubious, financial pies - Yup

Beer gutted guys, who proudly bore on about the time they built a school which has long since been merged and demolished - Yup

We have had overspending scandals, expenses scandals, mismanagement scandals, in the pockets of businesses that have gone bust scandals and they are golden.

Our Labour twats will never leave.

A lot of people do not seem to care about naked corruption.