To despair that people still vote Tory given their track record and outright dishonesty?

[flashbac]

I don't get it. Its depressing. We deserve better than this surely? Why give them the green light? What kind of society do we want? One where liars get our approval?

I think plenty of us have articulated why we didn’t want Corbyn.
Whether you listen or not is another matter.

I live rurally. I have had only one party make the effort to come to my doorstep and discuss local issues with me and to pop me on their mailing list.
No other party has posted out their agenda or been seen around the villages and lanes.

If they can't be arsed to tell me what they are all about, at a local level, I will not vote for them.

It’s pretty straightforward though, whether you agree with the Tories or not.

The Labour party was originally m set up to represent the interests of the industrial proletariat in government, but nowadays is firmly oriented towards middle-class public sector workers.

@LemonRoses

I agree. It’s incredible that some of our poorest communities will still vote for them. I cannot understand how people would vote for such a total lack on integrity I cannot understand how people are willing to accept one of the highest excess death rates in the world just because they can now sit outside Weatherspoons. I sadly believe they feel Brexit was a win because of the referendum result and the fact we’ve left the EU bit aren’t seeing the devastation it has reaped. Mainly I think it’s really sad that there is a move towards far right politics, othering and a lack of compassion for those less fortunate.

Maybe you should ask them. I know Labour hasn't, but it's worth a go.

The only election in our area today is for the PCC but I wouldn't have voted anyway.

I'm 52 and have voted at every general, local and PCC election held since I was 18. I even voted in the PR referendum. But nobody represents me any more and I'm sick of voting for the least worst option.

No one is thinking ‘I don’t care about the death rate. I can drink outside.’

@BraveBraveMouse

Agreed OP, there are some truly evil people in that party. Labour are not wonderful but at least they are led by good people.

I assume you're not Jewish then?

Maybe if Labour and their supporters stopped patronising those with a different view they might win the odd seat here and there

Do we want someone in power who is good or someone who is effective?

See here is the problem. The qualities you need to lead really effectively - whether that’s a company or an army or a country - requires a certain amount of ruthlessness.

You can’t ‘be kind’ when you are faced with decisions like whether or not to go to war, or whether or not to kill someone, or fire someone who is incompetent but lovely bloke and has four kids.

You need to have the ability to remain cool headed in a crisis and not allow sentimentalism to sway you.

All those qualities are useful but they often don’t make for a particularly pleasant person on an individual level.

@ajs8

Jesus?! Wokeness right there in your ridiculous comment. We live in a democracy and we can vote for whoever we wish. I personally think that Boris has done the best he could given the circumstances and I dread to think what would’ve happened through this pandemic if we had anyone else in government. There seems to be a pattern in government where labour gets in and ruins our country and then the conservatives have to come and sort it out!

That old classic. So when he skipped COBRA meetings, wasted money on contracts to his friends, refused to lockdown sooner, said "let the bodies pile high", that was all his best was it? His best is fucking appalling, in that case, we need a leader is who less concerned with their own ego and more concerned with science and public welfare.

I don't think OP had trouble understanding people have different views. I think OP has trouble understanding why anyone would support the Tory view. It's a reasonable thing to ask. I don't get it either.

Eh? That is exactly the same as having trouble understanding why people have different views. There is literally no difference. The Tory view IS a different view to the OP's.

@babbaloushka

I cannot believe people would advocate for BJ for women's rights. The one who said "pat her on her bottom and send her on her way", and that women only go to university to find husbands, and who cheated on his wife who had cancer and his an absent father to nearly all of his many children. The man is an out and out misogynist without the shame to even pretend otherwise.

I’m not advocating BJ for women’s rights and I don’t think any one has. However the Tories are the only party not to bow down to pressure from TRA at the expense of women. Labour actively expelled women and called them Transphobic because we was fighting for our rights. And that is why they have pulled many many women towards them. Just look at what is happening in Scotland under the SNP. Women can no longer access RAPE crisis centres with out their being men there. Imagine if you’d just been Raped and you have to discuss it with a male councillor. So for now I’ll vote Tory EVERY SINGLE time just to try and stop this travesty from happening here. I’m not voting for BJ I’m voting for the party who can at least tell what a women is.

So far I have not noticed mention of Trade Unions, (sorry if I missed it).
What now is the power and reach of McClusky and others who wield power through financial control of LP?

@Nanny0gg have you read Johnson's portrayal of a Jewish man in his book? Absolutely disgusting “proud nose and curly hair”, a money grabbing, deceitful, greedy Jew who is part of the alleged Jewish oligarchy that controls the media and global economy. The man is a blatant anti-semite, but people are too busy pointing the finger at Labour to give a shit.

The ironic thing is the Tories are not pro female. They have just stood still or have back peddled a bit where the other parties hurtled themselves down the trans ideology path.

That how desperate we are. We’re voting for a party who is just willing to stand still on women’s rights.

The tone deafness of proclamations of Tory/ evil, Labour/good and Corbyn being a good, honest man are a big part of my suspicion of The Labour Party. The EHRC report was damning and it happened under his watch. Starmer rightly called it as a shameful part of the party history yet threads like this make it clear that there is still wilful denial of the issues among many supporters. That is what I find so worrying.
Nobody on this thread has said Johnson is a good and honest man. Most are quite aware of his many faults and faults in the party. The difference is they are not involved in some sort of mass denial and some simplistic notion that voting Labour gives you the moral high ground despite the appalling events of the last few years.
They are looking at both options and deciding it is the least worst option.

[quote babbaloushka]@Nanny0gg have you read Johnson's portrayal of a Jewish man in his book? Absolutely disgusting “proud nose and curly hair”, a money grabbing, deceitful, greedy Jew who is part of the alleged Jewish oligarchy that controls the media and global economy. The man is a blatant anti-semite, but people are too busy pointing the finger at Labour to give a shit.[/quote]
Look at your party please.

There doesn't seem to be a viable alternative

@Hotankles Their silence isn't saying what you think it is, they're not advocating sex-based safe spaces, or making any visible effort to improve women's rights. They're stagnant, because Johnson is a misogynist who probably doesn't give a toss about safe spaces, because in his mine women are just slabs of meat to be fucked at will.

I just don’t get why poor communities vote for them. Lack of political literacy. It’s a shame.

@Blackberrycream Read the last sentence of my post and tell me you don't see the irony in your response.

@babbaloushka
Again, many might not doubt that but standing still is still preferable.
A leader who makes racist statements is still preferable to a party condemned by the EHRC and with a mass exodus of Jewish supporters as well as other long standing MPs who were disgusted by what they witnessed.
Read the room.
Least worse option.

Those with money and expensive large unnecessary properties will ALWAYS bit Tory. Big boys club. You will never be rid of them.

@Blackberrycream This isn't a point of concession or antagonism, but would you be able to explain a bit better what happened? I was under the impression it involved removing a clause from the IPT that forbid speaking negatively of Israel, and thus was interpreted as anti-Semitic, but I'm now thinking there might have been more that I missed. Every day is a learning day.

[quote babbaloushka]@Hotankles Their silence isn't saying what you think it is, they're not advocating sex-based safe spaces, or making any visible effort to improve women's rights. They're stagnant, because Johnson is a misogynist who probably doesn't give a toss about safe spaces, because in his mine women are just slabs of meat to be fucked at will.[/quote]
Well Lizz Truss got a lot of shit over the GRA. She was advocating women’s rights there. And hey, I’ll take stagnant over progressive ideology that destroys women’s sex based rights every time. It’s a hill I’m willing to due on. I want my dds to be able to choose to have a female nurse on their first smears instead of a man in a nurses outfit.