AIBU, is this utterly insane?

[sunshinepunch]

Hi

Having a really hard time with heart or head decision.

Trying to keep things as short as possible but don't want to drip feed. I'm married, late 40's. My husband is also late 40's and we have twin boys aged 8.

We moved from Scotland to Victoria (Australia) five years ago when the boys were wee.

My husband works full time and I'm part time and the boys are at a local school they like. My husband works long hours in a senior office based job and enjoys it here. His role can be quite technical and isn't found in every office. I pick up very junior full time admin roles (temporary reception assistant/packing envelopes/filing/data entry etc). We've not owned property in Scotland but did manage to save £20,000 which we used for visas and to move out to Australia.

Right, now to my AIBU. I would really like to move back to Scotland next year but my husband doesn't really want to go. I am originally from New Zealand but lived in Scotland for 11 years. My husband is half English half Scottish but doesn't really have much family to speak of except for his mum and aunt (elderly in Scotland). My husband and I earn better money in Victoria but it is really expensive here. I feel like we could almost never get on the property ladder. We have a little bit of savings (about $11,000 AUD) that would be used to move back and initial settling back costs. As we still have about a year to go if we move, it's likely the savings will increase a little.

Ever since we've lived in Australia I have felt like a fish out of water and I really want to go back to Scotland, where my close friends are. I have no ties with New Zealand anymore. I miss everything about Scotland. I've tried and tried here in Australia but it just feels like it's all keeping up with the Jones's and everyone already have all the friends they need. I feel like I'm an outsider looking in on someone else's life. I volunteer, take any job I can and invite people to coffee dates/play dates but it's just a closed book. I miss my friends so much & their kids, who my boys used to play with. But it's more than that. Scotland is "home" to me. I adore everything about it. It's where I feel settled. I feel like five years is enough to know Australia is not home. We moved here initially for a bit of adventure and thought it would be a better life as a family. My husband thinks Australia has a higher standard of living than Scotland and thinks kids are kids longer here/have better lives. He's earning more here and enjoys it here. He's said he will move back however if I really really want to.

We would apply for jobs before leaving (hopefully lining up interviews) and work hard back in Scotland. We both always had jobs in Scotland, but I know things will take a while to get back to some sort of normality.

The biggest issue is that we don't have any assets. I'm really concerned that we may be moving back to what could be a huge backwards step. We'd like to get a mortgage one day but I'm conscious we're late 40's, no assets and would moving back to start again as such. I'm worried I'm could even move my family to possible poverty.

Is it insane to even consider this?? Are we too old to be considering "starting anew"? I'm an optimistic person (and we've always made things work, we work hard) but just feel so dejected and an outsider.

I'm so desperately unhappy here, but I have to think of what's right for me and my family's future.

Do I just push my feelings away, smile and pretend?

Help........

Oh please don't remove the whole thread for the OP. It's our fault.
Apologies to the OP and everyone else reading through all that nonsense.

I think the trouble with this thread in many ways reflects your problem OP, if I may

In your mind and in your OP you've presented it as Scotland vs Australia.

I'm not sure it is. You've got a number of issues relating to finances, work, friends, family and social life.

I think you need to with through each of them, with your DH. It's really tempting to look for one big solution but I'm not convinced moving countries will solve your problems I'm afraid.

*work not with

Have you even seen your Scottish friends in the last 5 years? My worry is that you are expecting it be as it was if you go back, are you looking threw rose coloured lenses?

I agreed that Australia's heat can be very limiting in terms of how much time you can spend outdoors. And it's only going to get hotter given that the government has no plan for dealing with it.

If you haven't settled and don't feel at home after 5 years I would start planning to leave, but do your research in terms of house prices and bank lending etc so you have a plan for housing and getting a mortgage, perhaps not your forever home but something to start you off when you get back. With two incomes and a reasonable deposit you should be able to afford something.

If you are really keen about moving back to Scotland you might also consider a long-term career plan to occupy you when you get home. I have been in a similar situation - moved away and have now moved back after not quite settling after seven years, and it's been preparing to retrain for a new career that has made me feel committed to being here and excited to be starting a new phase in life. In other words, if you are going to move, make it decisive!

@NeverEnoughCats

OP it takes someone brave to make that first move and relocate to the other side of the planet. IMO it takes a braver person to admit that it wasn't for them and to relocate again.

I quite agree. This in spades.

Can't believe some of the utter crap being spoken about Scotland!! OP - we know what an amazing country Scotland is. It's the opposite of insular and, as a nation, voted to remain in the EU because we are an outward looking nation. Education is a high priority in Scotland and always will be. Home is where the heart is. And homesickness can be a terrible thing to bear. Good luck!

mojo You kinda gave yourself away there by saying you voted remain and stay tethered to a superstate? And that makes you a more forward thinker?! A adventurous globalist is clearly not for you.
Of course voting remain makes me more inclined to believe you do not like change, and therefore more likely to be insular not less. It is a weird choice to prove you are outward looking! Particularly as brussels is not exactly a beacon of democracy

Go home op, be happy and don't waste any more precious life living somewhere that makes you miserable. I can't imagine how happy your mother will be

Parts of Scotland can be very insular. The SNP have recently apologised for the down turn education has taken. I wouldn't be counting on funded university education for much longer either the way things are currently heading. Someone upthread mentioned free dental treatment. Dentists in our area aren't taking on NHS patients and haven't for years, so we have to pay for private dentistry. Most NHS treatment for adults isn't free, beyond checkups and cleaning.we also have the worst drug death stats in Europe.

Scotland is a beautiful country but it's not unadulterated milk and honey.

@laserfocus

Go home op, be happy and don't waste any more precious life living somewhere that makes you miserable. I can't imagine how happy your mother will be

Yeah, never mind what your husband wants or that you will not be able to take the kids from Aus if he says no, which I would. But you are free to leave any time you like, you just can't take your kids with you if he doesn't give permission for that.

I am only going to respond in terms of the emotive aspect because well see the bullfight really.

I empathise to a point. DP and I are Welsh. Both moved to the south east of England (I know not Australia but bear with me) many many years ago. I married Exdh and had two DC with him and then split and met Welsh DP. More than anything we both want to go "home" because that's what Wales is to us (despite the fact we both come from and lived in different parts). England has never felt the same (despite us both living here for longer ).

When we retire we will return but the absolute truth is that our need for home is emotive not practical. I desperately want it but it would not be fair on the DC , the reality is that there are more opportunities for work here for a better lifestyle (I mean not my choice of lifestyle because I would happily live in Wales but in terms of access to things ) .

I have lots of family still there as DP does but the impact of the move on DC would be so huge ot would become a selfish act. I really do understand about wanting to go home but the truth is sometimes it has to be head where DC are concerned. I couldn't look at them knowing that I had made such a big decision for my happiness without being sure that they would have the same.

I'm grateful to the South East for what its given us but I love Wales and its home but as much as I love it its not fair on my DC to move there.

Honestly, i think you need to stay. A lot of people are in the same situation without being able to move. Your husband moved and made a huge life change for you, you cant expect him to do it again. Not fair to the kids if they are happy.

What part of Scotland would you plan to move to? Many areas are still quite reasonable. The north-east is still down on where it was before the oil crash and prices haven't rocketed.
If you know you want to come back, why wait? It will be two years in limbo and put further obstacles on you settling. Your twins will find more years in primary useful for settling back in..
I'm not Scottish and elements of the independence row upset me but it's more on line than in real life. If you don't go down internet rabbit holes it's not too bad!
You do need to consider how long and dark the winter can be. It doesn't bother me at all but we are 'outside regardless' people and I don't like heat!
I do agree that you need to consider what your 'push' was in the first place. If it was mainly financial and that wasn't the case, write off your losses and move forward

You have done incredibly well to stick it out for FIVE whole years.

That is the honest answer. I am not even sure there is much to say beyond that. Half a decade you have been trying to make this work, no one can ever say you didn't give it your best shot.

You don't have to like it op. I hated Australia, love the people, but couldn't stand the bland and boring buildings, so vanilla everywhere, the lack of history, the heat, the dusty towns that felt quite desolate. I didn't enjoy the small town mentality prevalent in some areas. I can understand why you feel like you do. No offence but it really isn't for everyone. I was sick of the sun, sick of the heat. And it does feel like a heck of a long way away.

And I agree with others that it's a bit weird to see so many people dissing Scotland as if it's some hellhole. It's not. It's lovely. Are all these posters naysaying it, living in Scotland, and if so and it's so bad, why are you not living in Oz?! ;)

Just what I was thinking.
I don't recognise the 'wasteland' description of some views on here of Scotland. I think you should get much wider views. It's like listening to people saying England isn't what it used to be and since Brexit divided the population it's gone downhill.

I've lived in Scotland, England and Victoria OZ - still have family and friends in all 3 places. Views of what is good and bad vary - and change often! Be careful who you listen to, and think of your family first.

*You left for a reason, think back to why that was.
*There are lots of ways to make new friends at a later age, maybe try different routes to do that. Is your DH as heavily invested in doing that as you are?
*Can you work full time to earn more money to invest in property?

• Are your children well settled? How will moving affect them?

Your pals in Scotland might have moved on with their friendships in The time you've been away - don't put too much store on what your remember- they might even move home.

You'll get a warm welcome back in Scotland if you do return.

Laserfocus, I don't think the op's mum is in Scotland - it's her DH who has family there.

None of the Uk is a land of hope and glory right now

True.
Australia has some serious issues too.

I found it hard to make friends when we moved in the UK with young DC. I hated living here for a long time. Recently I've felt I belonged more. Mainly due to retraining which got me into a work environment with people more like me. They immediately felt like friends when I'd spent 15 years feeling like a fish out of water. So just mentioning this in case it could be an option for you. It's sometimes not about the place but being able to find like minded people.

My two cents worth - I'm Scottish and spent 15 years abroad living working and studying and travelling. I then by pure chance saw an interesting job vacancy in Edinburgh, applied and was offered the job! I'm not even from Edinburgh - grew up several hours away - and had only passed through. Well, I had a real crisis about whether moving "home" was the right thing to do, was it "giving up" on the path I had been on...

...to cut a long story short - wow! What a fantastic country and a massive breath of fresh air coming back here has been. Loads of things have changed for the better since I was last here and by god the people are friendly. Restaurants = amazing. Countryside = stunning. Culture (in Edinburgh) = accessible and awe-inspiring. Deep down I feel a real connection to the place and the people....also I instinctively know how to handle situations better here...there's no escaping it - you can take the girl out of Scotland, but you can't take the Scotland out of the girl. I definitely feel at home here. ❤️

@lavieengrenache I think the OP knows that every single country on this planet has good points and bad points, advantages and disadvantages...

Supporting the idea of Scottish independence does not mean you are insular - sometimes quite the opposite in my experience.

OP I spent 3 years in Oz and felt exactly the same about moving back . I used to refer to myself as pimping myself out to make friends as it’s really hard to break into established groups. I found it difficult to listen to winging Pom’s about how rubbish the UK is.
So we returned our Scotland and I do not recognise the failing doom and gloom Scotland pp talk about
My dc are doing just as well in school here than in Oz and I don’t have to pay “ contribution costs “ of $400 each.
The talk of Scotland’s demise due to the SNP/ independence is all down to individual political preferences. Quite frankly I cannot wait to be rid of the Tories but that’s my preference.
I returned with £20000 to put down as a deposit on a house with a mortgage taken out solely when I was 50.
So all absolutely doable.
I got a job no bother when I came back , NHS.
Things to consider, I actually dumped a few friends after coming back and have gone NC with a close family member but the extra years with my parents makes up for the loss of being able to dry my clothes in an hour.

I thought I would stay in Oz for ever but actually I think Scotland is a much better place to raise my dc.
I think a lot of people just do not understand the yearning for home and think Oz is the land of milk and honey when in fact it’s a melting pot of sexism and racism that I’ve never seen in Scotland.

I would definitely try to get some money behind you though if you can.

I do miss the warm sea though.

For sure, but moving your family half way round the world for perhaps a rose tinted view of a country could be a disaster. It just needs thinking about with clear eyes.

Supporting Scottish independence could be seen as either insular nationalism or world embracing - what concerns me most is the way the SNP are refusing to detail the financial plans behind independence until after the current elections/closer to a referendum. Perhaps they have a great plan, perhaps they don't have a clue. The OP needs facts on which to base a huge move.

My DH's family moved between the UK, Ireland, Australia and the US for a decade in the seventies, mostly due to his parents not settling anywhere, always searching for something better, or harking back to a past which tbh wouldn't have existed anywhere. It completely buggered up his education and the first few years of his working life. He doesn't blame his parents but he does recognise that they didn't make the best decisions.

I’m so sorry to hear about your issues. YANBU to feel this way. It can sometimes be very hard to move countries and start anew. Age and what you do for employment has so much leverage in how you settle in. Scotland for you was when you were much younger and able to bond with friends but with age comes more claim on your time so also of people your age, less time to make friends who become good fiends. I have felt this way for years here in UK. Came here 30 years ago to marry my British DH. All my Closest friends are all immigrants (expat, whichever term people prefer) because everyone else has good friends/best friends from growing up or uni or through NCT etc.

There are groups for women geared towards expats, where you will find some are there permanently. I have met some friends here in Uk in such a ladies club.

About the mortgage, you have very valid concerns there. Lenders are reluctant to lend to you in situations where the mortgage will not be paid off before age of retirement. Also, you’d need your deposit. Have you kept bank accounts and credit cards in Uk to keep your credit score up?

Another thing to consider is your retirement. What plans do you have in place? If you’re thinking of moving back to Uk, have you been topping up your contributions? In fact. , even if not returning this is something you both should be looking into in order fo ensure sufficient retirement plans.

I wish you the best and hope you find some lovely friends and your niche.

The one thing that is very clear, having been on Mumsnet a while, is that people on here love to hate on Scotland. I honestly don't recognise the Scotland I live in, in many of these posts.

An example being that people talk about Scotland being insular, but one of the driving forces behind the independence movement is that many of us don't want to be part of an insular United Kingdom to the exclusion of being part of the EU. (Of course there are no guarantees that we would be allowed back in, but it's a joke to say we are insular when the people that voted for before are south of the border)

And they love to hate on the weather despite it being not too dissimilar to large parts of England. They talk of it being dark when we get more daylight during the summer months.

That said, it's a huge decision. Good luck with it