AIBU, is this utterly insane?

[sunshinepunch]

Hi

Having a really hard time with heart or head decision.

Trying to keep things as short as possible but don't want to drip feed. I'm married, late 40's. My husband is also late 40's and we have twin boys aged 8.

We moved from Scotland to Victoria (Australia) five years ago when the boys were wee.

My husband works full time and I'm part time and the boys are at a local school they like. My husband works long hours in a senior office based job and enjoys it here. His role can be quite technical and isn't found in every office. I pick up very junior full time admin roles (temporary reception assistant/packing envelopes/filing/data entry etc). We've not owned property in Scotland but did manage to save £20,000 which we used for visas and to move out to Australia.

Right, now to my AIBU. I would really like to move back to Scotland next year but my husband doesn't really want to go. I am originally from New Zealand but lived in Scotland for 11 years. My husband is half English half Scottish but doesn't really have much family to speak of except for his mum and aunt (elderly in Scotland). My husband and I earn better money in Victoria but it is really expensive here. I feel like we could almost never get on the property ladder. We have a little bit of savings (about $11,000 AUD) that would be used to move back and initial settling back costs. As we still have about a year to go if we move, it's likely the savings will increase a little.

Ever since we've lived in Australia I have felt like a fish out of water and I really want to go back to Scotland, where my close friends are. I have no ties with New Zealand anymore. I miss everything about Scotland. I've tried and tried here in Australia but it just feels like it's all keeping up with the Jones's and everyone already have all the friends they need. I feel like I'm an outsider looking in on someone else's life. I volunteer, take any job I can and invite people to coffee dates/play dates but it's just a closed book. I miss my friends so much & their kids, who my boys used to play with. But it's more than that. Scotland is "home" to me. I adore everything about it. It's where I feel settled. I feel like five years is enough to know Australia is not home. We moved here initially for a bit of adventure and thought it would be a better life as a family. My husband thinks Australia has a higher standard of living than Scotland and thinks kids are kids longer here/have better lives. He's earning more here and enjoys it here. He's said he will move back however if I really really want to.

We would apply for jobs before leaving (hopefully lining up interviews) and work hard back in Scotland. We both always had jobs in Scotland, but I know things will take a while to get back to some sort of normality.

The biggest issue is that we don't have any assets. I'm really concerned that we may be moving back to what could be a huge backwards step. We'd like to get a mortgage one day but I'm conscious we're late 40's, no assets and would moving back to start again as such. I'm worried I'm could even move my family to possible poverty.

Is it insane to even consider this?? Are we too old to be considering "starting anew"? I'm an optimistic person (and we've always made things work, we work hard) but just feel so dejected and an outsider.

I'm so desperately unhappy here, but I have to think of what's right for me and my family's future.

Do I just push my feelings away, smile and pretend?

Help........

Hi OP
I wonder if there’s some compromise here between staying where you are and moving back to Scotland. Have you considered moving to a different part of Australia for a fresh start and perhaps different possibilities for better social circles, better employment for yourself which might lead to more savings and a house? You didn’t say where in Vic you are but obviously if you’re in Melbourne, real estate can be incredibly pricey there. Have you considered Queensland or south Australia? Or even places out of the big cities?
Full disclosure, I am Australian so obviously I am biased but I am engaged to a scotsman and he’s the father of my child and for his own reasons he would never dream of going back to scotland. You came out here for a reason, maybe you just ended up in the wrong bit of this massive country and you just need to look a bit further afield to find what your looking for?

@unwuthering ah ok, If you go back and read you'll see I was responding to someone who said many people have unrealistic views of Australia and I said, in a lighthearted way, I blame Wanted Down Under for some unrealistic views... Not my reason to move here. If you read my other posts you'll see I've lived here before, albeit briefly, not in a family unit and a long time ago....ah...nevermind

I made a similar move (although NSW to Scotland) and for similar reasons after having lived in Australia for nine years.

Happy to tell you all about how it went and how things are almost four years later - PM me if you'd like.

I'm in Scotland. I don't know how aware you are of the huge shifts going on in Scotland the past few years and how strongly they certainly would affect all your lives.

Pandemic; for the past year has totally ruled everyones life , work education, movement, social contact; ( far worse than in Australia) and no guarantee where it's going next.
Scottish politics very unstable ( Holyrood election this week, god help the economy/NHS/education if we face the disruption of another Indyref)
Westminster politics; shambolic PM
Scottish property market on fire , selling fast at very high prices
Scottish education is in a mess at every level.
Scottish NHS still reeling from covid, treatment backlogs will last years.

Nobody knows or can guess if or how or when Scotland will recover from these multiple whammies.

In your shoes I would stay put, watch and wait for at ;east a couple of years.

Do you know the Pomz in Oz forum? It has a moving-back-to-the-UK thread where people thrash out the various issues. There is a long-standing member who has ended up rather stuck there while longing to come back who is always interesting.

I'm in Scotland. I don't know how aware you are of the huge shifts going on in Scotland the past few years and how strongly they certainly would affect all your lives

I'm in Scotland too, and don't agree with you.

Pandemic; for the past year has totally ruled everyones life , work education, movement, social contact; ( far worse than in Australia) and no guarantee where it's going next

The vaccination roll out is extremely fast paced and ALL adults will be vaccinated by July. On the 21st June all restrictions will be lifted and life will be mostly back to normal. Shops, bars, restaurants, gyms, schools etc are ALL open already, albeit with some restrictions in place, which as I say will be no longer needed after 21st June.

Scottish politics very unstable ( Holyrood election this week, god help the economy/NHS/education if we face the disruption of another Indyref)

Does not affect my life in any way.

Westminster politics; shambolic PM

I disagree. Some people just moan, moan, moan. The Government have supported the Nation brilliantly throughout this pandemic, by freezing mortgages and giving financial support to most adults, by paying them 80% of their salary to stay at home, and by giving the Self employed grants to keep them afloat.

Scottish property market on fire , selling fast at very high prices

New Government backed mortgages mean that only a 5% deposit is required.

Scottish education is in a mess at every level

What? My DD is a Teacher and I would disagree with this.

Scottish NHS still reeling from covid, treatment backlogs will last years

Unless the Op or her family are seriously unwell, this will impact her how?

Nobody knows or can guess if or how or when Scotland will recover from these multiple whammies

People are affected in different ways. I've been hardly affected at all. If Op can get a job and her DH can get a job, I can't see the problem.

Having said all of this, I'm not sure uprooting your family again is a good idea.

I'm with you, blue, I simply don't recognise all the catastrophising about Scotland.

Scotland is Home, and always will be. You don't like Scotland, MOVE.

I agree with @Bluedeblue as well.
I am also of the opinion indyref2 is on a backburner, I believe NS said as much that's it's out of the picture for at least two years and I also don't know what's changed to have swayed people to a majority for it.

I really don't understand the obsession with homeownership, people do rent and can be quite happy. Regarding Scotland, I love my country but sadly I think it's went downhill over the years. Im sick to death of constant Independence debates and feel Neverendum is an apt name, we have recovering from a Pandemic to fully occupy our minds and it worries me that my great- grandchildren will still be paying for it. Don't believe either that healthcare is better here. Pre- Pandemic my wait would be 3 weeks to see a GP.One thing to take into consideration is when/if you return to Scotland, the friends you think you have may have moved on. It's just my personal opinion but I think returning to Scotland could be a backward step. Australia has so much more to offer and I say this with a very, heavy heart.

Did you post this last year op? Very familiar.

@Bluedeblue
Very well said, Scotland has many many wonderful areas to live and raise a family, whoever posted the nonsense makes it sound like a 3rd world country!
Rather here than England any day!

OP, do you have any idea of where in Scotland you'd like to live and what sort of job you and your DH would like to do here?

You might want to make a list of pros and cons, because otherwise this sort of thinking can lead to a sort of downward spiral of negativity from which its difficult to make any progress.

Can you do anything to improve your satisfaction with your life in Australia?

You're a New Zealander, so how well do you know Scotland? Wouldn't New Zealand provide many of the benefits of a smaller country and mountains, etc without travelling halfway across the world, if you were to move?

A lot of people talk about 5 stages of ExPat life, and it sounds like you're stuck in Stage 3. Is there anything you can do to change that, because you might find you are stuck in Stage 3 wherever you move to.

everythingplayadelcarmen.com/expat-life/

After Brexit we left the UK to live in Europe. Tried 2 other countries. 3 years later moved back because we missed friends and saw the bad bits we couldnt accept in those counteies. Having tried “the dream” makes it easier now to accept the flaws Home. We love being back.
Not having settled after 5 years means there’s a good change OP never will. The boys are still young. I wouldn’t uproot teenagers though.

There is a bit more to Scotland than being small and having mountains. It has, to my mind anyway, the distinct advantage of having several culturally vibrant cities and is close to others in England, while being only a few hours from Europe. They are by no means mutually interchangeable, even if tracts of NZ did remind me of being just outside Kelso.

@midsomermurderess

I'm with you, blue, I simply don't recognise all the catastrophising about Scotland.

I think though folks have to recognise that if she’d said England the response would have been the Same. None of the Uk is a land of hope and glory right now.

I do t think it would have been, Bluntness. That was a post specifically around what the poster perceives to be happening in Scotland. And don't 'correct' me like that.

I've lived in both Australia (Sydney to be exact) and Scotland, and for my family, Scotland wins hands down in terms of quality of life. However, depending on who you are, where you are coming from (location and in terms of background and family stuff), what opportunities you have in terms of jobs etc, this could be a completely different story. I used to be a moderator on the Pomsinoz forum, and have been a semi-regular poster there since 2007, and have seen all sides of the 'UK/Australia which is better' debate. Ultimately, both are awesome countries to live in IF you are suited to them.

Personally, moving to Scotland (from Australia, and England before that - never lived in Scotland before) has been pretty much the best thing I've ever done in my life (with the exception of having kids, obviously!). We all settled easily, have made loads of friends, have got involved in the local community, I've retrained and started a new career, no complaints with schooling, NHS services, the weather...it has been an awesome move for us. I am the same person that I was in Australia, but I never settled in the nine or so years we lived there. I met lots of friendly people but made no '3 am friends' (you know, the ones who you could call on in an emergency), struggled to get involved in things like playgroup and community groups, and actually, despite people telling us we were lucky to live 'in a holiday place', once the novelty of the beach and the sunshine wore off, it really was same shit, shinier bucket! The honeymoon phase was great, but after that had passed I felt like a square peg in a round hole and I just didn't belong there. There isn't anything wrong with Australia, it just wasn't for me. But of course, other people have different experiences, based on all of the things that I said in the first paragraph.

OP it takes someone brave to make that first move and relocate to the other side of the planet. IMO it takes a braver person to admit that it wasn't for them and to relocate again.

FFS this is like playground stuff @Horehound and @CirclesWithinCircles. Can you not both leave it? Seriously derailing the OP's thread here with your petty nonsense.

Thank you for the reports on this thread. While we go through them all, could we ask for a bit of peace and love here please. You can hide the thread or take a break from it if you are feeling het up by what you are reading. Many more deletions and we'll have to remove the whole thing.