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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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AIBU, is this utterly insane?

182 replies

sunshinepunch · 05/05/2021 07:30

Hi

Having a really hard time with heart or head decision.

Trying to keep things as short as possible but don't want to drip feed. I'm married, late 40's. My husband is also late 40's and we have twin boys aged 8.

We moved from Scotland to Victoria (Australia) five years ago when the boys were wee.

My husband works full time and I'm part time and the boys are at a local school they like. My husband works long hours in a senior office based job and enjoys it here. His role can be quite technical and isn't found in every office. I pick up very junior full time admin roles (temporary reception assistant/packing envelopes/filing/data entry etc). We've not owned property in Scotland but did manage to save £20,000 which we used for visas and to move out to Australia.

Right, now to my AIBU. I would really like to move back to Scotland next year but my husband doesn't really want to go. I am originally from New Zealand but lived in Scotland for 11 years. My husband is half English half Scottish but doesn't really have much family to speak of except for his mum and aunt (elderly in Scotland). My husband and I earn better money in Victoria but it is really expensive here. I feel like we could almost never get on the property ladder. We have a little bit of savings (about $11,000 AUD) that would be used to move back and initial settling back costs. As we still have about a year to go if we move, it's likely the savings will increase a little.

Ever since we've lived in Australia I have felt like a fish out of water and I really want to go back to Scotland, where my close friends are. I have no ties with New Zealand anymore. I miss everything about Scotland. I've tried and tried here in Australia but it just feels like it's all keeping up with the Jones's and everyone already have all the friends they need. I feel like I'm an outsider looking in on someone else's life. I volunteer, take any job I can and invite people to coffee dates/play dates but it's just a closed book. I miss my friends so much & their kids, who my boys used to play with. But it's more than that. Scotland is "home" to me. I adore everything about it. It's where I feel settled. I feel like five years is enough to know Australia is not home. We moved here initially for a bit of adventure and thought it would be a better life as a family. My husband thinks Australia has a higher standard of living than Scotland and thinks kids are kids longer here/have better lives. He's earning more here and enjoys it here. He's said he will move back however if I really really want to.

We would apply for jobs before leaving (hopefully lining up interviews) and work hard back in Scotland. We both always had jobs in Scotland, but I know things will take a while to get back to some sort of normality.

The biggest issue is that we don't have any assets. I'm really concerned that we may be moving back to what could be a huge backwards step. We'd like to get a mortgage one day but I'm conscious we're late 40's, no assets and would moving back to start again as such. I'm worried I'm could even move my family to possible poverty.

Is it insane to even consider this?? Are we too old to be considering "starting anew"? I'm an optimistic person (and we've always made things work, we work hard) but just feel so dejected and an outsider.

I'm so desperately unhappy here, but I have to think of what's right for me and my family's future.

Do I just push my feelings away, smile and pretend?

Help........

OP posts:
TwiceAsNice22 · 05/05/2021 14:10

If you had a job you liked and a friendship circle here would you still want to move back to Scotland? Or would both places be on a more level playing field? I think that’s the question you need to answer, because if even with those things you still wouldn’t like it here, then it sounds like you should move back.
I live in Victoria as well (and have twins too) and I know how hard it can be to move to a new country and have it feel like home. I do feel at home here now, but it’s taken a long time. To be honest a lot of my friends are originally from other places (even other parts of Australia) as a lot of Australians seem to still have the same friends from when they were in kindergarten!
If it were me, I would give yourself another year and really try and make a big effort, join a class, pick a few people to try and get to know more, even contact your local twin group to organise catch-ups with kids the same age. And I would look into more permanent job options. At least that way if you do move back you know you have given it your best shot.

Horehound · 05/05/2021 14:10

You criticise me for striving to be what you assume is a higher level tax payer (how terrible!) Where?! What I did was compare two tax rates. That's literally all I did. Jeez you really are quite sensitive to feel criticized by that comment.
Sorry keep posting little bits and bobs, I skim read most of your post because it was all so irrelevant, but I will pick out outright lies!

CirclesWithinCircles · 05/05/2021 14:11

Oh and Horehound I'm in the NE, work in and around Aberdeen, the very large company I work for has two huge sites in Aberdeen, Oil and gas sector, survived covid with no redundancies huzah! That's pretty good isn't it?!

I currently live in Aberdeen, and as you fine know, Union Street almost has more closed and often derelict retail units than open, the Bon Accord Centre has gone bankrupt and I have friends who can't sell one bedroom flats they paid 110k for 5 years ago for 65k now.

But never mind, the countryside is being covered in Stewart Milne, and that other council favourite, Dandard new build houses, so who needs a city centre!

CirclesWithinCircles · 05/05/2021 14:12

horehound I will pick out outright lies!

So will I. I've lost so many friends here in the 5 years I've been back from NL, mostly due to having to move to the south east of England to get actual jobs in engineering and related fields that have been lost due to the oil downturn. You clearly know the right people in the oil...

Horehound · 05/05/2021 14:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Horehound · 05/05/2021 14:19

@CirclesWithinCircles

horehound I will pick out outright lies!

So will I. I've lost so many friends here in the 5 years I've been back from NL, mostly due to having to move to the south east of England to get actual jobs in engineering and related fields that have been lost due to the oil downturn. You clearly know the right people in the oil...

Clearly!
Glitterbaby17 · 05/05/2021 14:20

It sounds to me like you need to go home. I’m British and have been in Melbourne for 3 years now with 2 kids (my DH is Aussie) and did 3 years a few years ago. It’s not for me and we are making plans to go home as I’m unhappy and want my kids to grow up around family and friends. I think Australia is a bit marmite/vegemite and people either settle and love it or don’t and want to go home. There’s a good Facebook group called Ping Pong Poms where you may make connections with similar feelings and good advice

Horehound · 05/05/2021 14:21

@CirclesWithinCircles

Oh and Horehound I'm in the NE, work in and around Aberdeen, the very large company I work for has two huge sites in Aberdeen, Oil and gas sector, survived covid with no redundancies huzah! That's pretty good isn't it?!

I currently live in Aberdeen, and as you fine know, Union Street almost has more closed and often derelict retail units than open, the Bon Accord Centre has gone bankrupt and I have friends who can't sell one bedroom flats they paid 110k for 5 years ago for 65k now.

But never mind, the countryside is being covered in Stewart Milne, and that other council favourite, Dandard new build houses, so who needs a city centre!

One bedroom flats are always hard to sell and Aberdeen at the height of the oil boom on the last 20 years was so overpriced that people bought stupidly high and now can't sell. I do have a friend in Aberdeen on that situation. But my brother had two flats for 10+ years and just sold both recently. Montrose is the same, very hard to shift 1 bed flats but I sold my 5 bed house near Forfar within 2 months. There is money floating around but not for 1 bed flats.
Becstar90 · 05/05/2021 14:23

@LakieLady Gee thanks. I'm an Aussie, I'm none of those things. Way to put a whole country in one box 😒

SwanShaped · 05/05/2021 14:26

I think you should move back. Particularly as your mother in law is around. Family is important for children and, although not the be all and end all, is a positive. I could not in any way handle not having close friends. I would get so down. I’d do it sooner rather than later.

Horehound · 05/05/2021 14:28

[quote Becstar90]@LakieLady Gee thanks. I'm an Aussie, I'm none of those things. Way to put a whole country in one box 😒 [/quote]
I just read that comment. Bloody hell, you're right.
This thread is crazy.

Remaker · 05/05/2021 14:30

Apologies if I missed it OP but are you in Melbourne or regional Victoria? That makes a huge difference in house prices but city people are generally more open minded and welcoming than those in regional areas.

Houses in Australia are definitely more expensive than the UK however I think the general cost of living is higher in the UK.

My husband is from England and has been in Australia for 25 years. He has lots of friends here but he’s the type to join in, volunteer and get involved. He probably has more friends than I do and I’ve lived here my while life!

Many of our friends are originally from the UK and a lot of them have returned home at some stage. Almost all have ended up back here after they realised the grass wasn’t greener. Usually it’s the woman who wants to move back to the UK to be close to family and the bloke would prefer to stay. A few couples we know have split up over it as neither would budge.

There are aspects of home that DH misses but once our kids were settled at school we decided we would commit to Australia. When we retire we will look at spending at least part of every year in the UK. I do think your attitude has a huge bearing on happiness and it is possible to choose to be happy somewhere.

Morgan12 · 05/05/2021 14:33

What part of Scotland would you be moving back too?

I'm central scotland and house prices here are okay. My kids school is a great school. There's no 'independce war' previous posters are speaking of. I'm able to be a SAHM as mortgage is low and activities aren't expensive. We are 20 minutes from Glasgow and 45 minutes from Edinburgh. Aye the weather is crap sometimes but I don't do well in the sun so this doesn't really affect me.

Crankley · 05/05/2021 14:37

OP, I want to throw another idea into the mix. If the PM gives permission for a second indyref and Yes wins, I think things are going to be tough in an independent Scotland for a while. Just a couple of examples: 30,000 Westminster civil servant jobs currently in Scotland will move back to England. That's a lot of people who will be looking for work. The UK military bases in Scotland will close, pretty much decimating the local area who relied on them for their living.

Would you perhaps consider initially moving back to England? You would be a hell of a lot closer to friends and when things settled down, maybe you could think about moving back to Scotland when the time is right?

CirclesWithinCircles · 05/05/2021 14:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. We've removed this one as it quotes a previously deleted post.

Horehound · 05/05/2021 14:48

@CirclesWithinCircles yes because no violence or vandalism ever happens in any other country?!
Does it happen in other countries? Of course it does!
What false accusations? I think it's blindingly clear youre racist about the people of the country you're currently living in!
No jobs in small towns like Montrose? Ok, so no massive Centre of Excellence for Baker Hughes. GSK, Halliburton, NOV. Mhmm yeh ok.
Since I actually work in the O&G sector and having worked for Subsea7, FMCTechnip and another big one which I'm not going to name right now, I have lots and lots of colleagues/past colleagues and friends in the Aberdeen area in O&G and not a single soul has moved to the terrible heights of NE England.
But sure, you have 5 friends who've had to.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised you have 5 friends at all.

I'm not engaging with you any more, you're actually really unhinged.

Horehound · 05/05/2021 14:51

Oh god, look!
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-dutch-rioters-test-centre-fire-b1791917.html
A young crowd of rioters have burnt down a coronavirus testing centre in a conservative Dutch fishing village, as the first night of a nationwide curfew was met with a largely peaceful – but occasionally incendiary – response.

The angry mob was also accused of destroying police cars and pelting officers with bricks and fireworks in Urk, situated 50 miles northeast of Amsterdam, prompting the mayor to invoke emergency powers and call for riot police – who arrived after the crowd had been tamed.

Now I hope you're "best prepared" @CirclesWithinCircles. Ignorance is bliss hey?!

sunshinepunch · 05/05/2021 14:52

Hi everyone. I've just settled the boys (one had a nightmare so the other is up of course), logged on and wow. I did not expect so many posts! Thank you to those who sent a message privately too, very supportive and I will respond.

So much great advice on this thread, weird detrailling about Dutch PhDs and luck.... Hmm and a bit of a debate about what Scotland is really like ...

I do politely ask the two Dutch PhD posters to perhaps chat on a separate thread or in private messages? I know I can't tell you what to do but it has gone pretty left field and a bit distracting.

To the person/people who think I moved for a TV show? I have no idea what that's all about..odd. If you read my posts you'll see I'm a Kiwi who has lived in NZ, Australia and Scotland before.

To those saying stop speaking to your Scottish friends so much, well, I've got to say they've kept me alive. Laughed with me, listened to my tears and were my lifeline when I was so incredibly lonely. No-one understands how lonely it can be as an expat, unless you've moved countries. If I can't make supportive connections here why in the world would I give up my only lifeline back there? I volunteer, I ask mums on coffee & play dates, hold bbqs etc. I even chat to people at the markets, smile and say hi to people in shops. Hard to stay happy and smiling when you feel lost and like an alien. I'm trying, believe me.

I'll respond to as many as I can tomorrow, its late, time to turn in but wanted to thank everyone who's taken the time to pen supportive messages. I'm genuinely touched you've taken the time to help a stranger. You've given me a really good amount to think about and it's refreshing to have opinions outside my echo chamber.

I really really need to use my head, properly do the finances and research, research, research.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 05/05/2021 14:52

Op is entitled to try new adventures with her family and to see if it worked for them. So it hasn't this time

Well it’s worked perfectly fine for her husband and kids. It’s the op that has the issue. And it was the op who wanted to move last time too. The fundamental issue isn’t geography. That’s where the op keeps going wrong. She thinks the geographic location will make her life magically better. It won’t. She will just bring her same issues with her. She’s going to be no happier in Scotland stuffing envelopes than she is in Australia. Possibly much more unhappy if her husband is unemployed and they are living on benefits.

sunshinepunch · 05/05/2021 14:54

@CirclesWithinCircles & @Horehound
please stop.

OP posts:
Horehound · 05/05/2021 14:56

@sunshinepunch oh yes, don't worry I am finished engaging with PHDface.

I really feel for you @sunshinepunch it must be isolating feeling this way. I think you need to look at pros and cons of both sides. Save like crazy. Research areas you'd be interested in then also you should maybe start a post on the Scotsnet section of Mumsnet for more tailored advice/knowledge relevant to the areas you'd be looking to move to.
What a hard decision!

BIWI · 05/05/2021 14:57

Do you need to be so rude @Horehound? Hmm

CirclesWithinCircles · 05/05/2021 14:57

[quote Horehound]@CirclesWithinCircles yes because no violence or vandalism ever happens in any other country?!
Does it happen in other countries? Of course it does!
What false accusations? I think it's blindingly clear youre racist about the people of the country you're currently living in!
No jobs in small towns like Montrose? Ok, so no massive Centre of Excellence for Baker Hughes. GSK, Halliburton, NOV. Mhmm yeh ok.
Since I actually work in the O&G sector and having worked for Subsea7, FMCTechnip and another big one which I'm not going to name right now, I have lots and lots of colleagues/past colleagues and friends in the Aberdeen area in O&G and not a single soul has moved to the terrible heights of NE England.
But sure, you have 5 friends who've had to.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised you have 5 friends at all.

I'm not engaging with you any more, you're actually really unhinged.[/quote]
Wee bit erratic Horehound.

I don't know where you are getting this information about me from, but it isn't based in reality, rather like a lot of your postings. But you really do hate the Dutch, don't you?

I really do wish the Scottish Government would address the economic problems that the north east has experienced and the job losses that have occurred and the lives that have been uprooted. It really is a mystery why posters come on and deny its happened. Quite bizarre.

BIWI · 05/05/2021 14:57

For the love of God, take it somewhere else @CirclesWithinCircles and @Horehound!

unwuthering · 05/05/2021 15:09

To the person/people who think I moved for a TV show? I have no idea what that's all about..odd.

I think that's because you did say:

I blame the TV show Wanted Down under- absolutely nothing like reality!!

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