Children apologising: who IBU in this situation?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Disclaimer: I’m neither family in this but my friend is.

A year 2 (age 7) girl gets shoved in the playground by a boy when they were playing cops and robbers. This really upsets her but she's not forthcoming with standing up for herself. When she gets home, because she knows the boy lives around the corner, she gets her (6ft tall and stocky - this is relevant) dad to take her to his house so she can knock on the door and ask him to apologise. The boy’s mum is a widow, an older mum (early 50’s) and it’s just the two of them living there. The dad/family of the girl know this.

When the girl and her dad arrive and say Thomas shoved her today and they’d like him to come to the door and apologise, Thomas’ mum says no because “it’s just what happens when children play sometimes they get shoved” and that the dad was out of order to come round as it’s intimidating for her living on her own to have an unexpected and ‘burly’ man knock on her door making demands.

The family of the girl say they think this is out of order and an apology should have been given, they’re trying to teach their daughter to stand up for herself especially when it comes to boys being rough and crossing physical boundaries.

Who is in the right?

So it IS ok for a guy who is 6ft tall to stand up to a woman if he feels she has done something that needs to be addressed? Glad you came round to tthat way fo thinking

No.

Where did you get he idea that I 'confessed' it was fine?

I'm no psychologist but if I had to bet on what the fuck you're blathering on about I'd say it all comes down to the fact that you're large husband who you've admitted accosts women in public is a nasty bully and it's not a nice realisation.

I can't see why else you're running away with the 6ft bloke thing

@MintyMabel

Literally no one said that was the only reason he shouldn't have gone

Literally, it is the point of the OP.

That, and widows can use their status never to be questioned.

You seem to be the only one who thinks that was the point of the OP

Pray tell oh wise one, what is the "wrong way to feel intimidated"

Wrong way react. Not to feel.

Should women STFU when being intimidated lest they actually have the nerve to stand up for themselves?

Should girls in the playground accept they can be shoved because a boy is allegedly having a hard time? I mean, it was just a shove, right? If OH is having a hard day, he can shove me, yes?

”Fight or flight” instinct is a very well known thing when someone is scared.

Sure, in extreme situations. Not because a bloke asks your son to apologise.

Sure, in extreme situations. Not because a bloke asks your son to apologise.

You don’t get to decide when someone is intimidated.

If someone is intimidated by a stranger turning up on their door step then flight or fight is a perfectly understandable instinct to have.

Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t make their feelings wrong or weird.

Should girls in the playground accept they can be shoved because a boy is allegedly having a hard time?

No, but they should expect to be shoved if they are playing a rough game like "cops and robbers".

So, there are right and wrong ways to have an emotional response to feeling intimidated and a fixed list of things you're allowed to be intimidated by based on how "serious" they are....? I think not.

The mum is right. The dad shouldn’t have gone round to her house. It would have been different if he’d seen the mum at the school gate, but going round to the house is intimidating and not necessary as it hadn’t only just happened.

The girl and dad should have spoken to the girl’s teacher who could have had a word with the boy. That would have been the best thing to do.

He should have taken it up with the school and teach his daughter that ‘sticking up for herself’ doesn’t involve intimidating women but speaking up to a teacher.

This dad needs to pick his battles. You can't and shouldn't intervene in every playground incident.

Fight, flight, fawn or freeze! I tend to do a bit of fight or freeze. Fawning just isn't in my makeup.

@MintyMabel you’re on another planet

Wrong way react. Not to feel.

Erm, YOU said there was a wrong way to be intimidated

Should girls in the playground accept they can be shoved because a boy is allegedly having a hard time? I mean, it was just a shove, right? If OH is having a hard day, he can shove me, yes?

ALLEGEDLY

There is no proof that this was a malicious shove. Given they were playing a contact gave its highly likely this was an accident.

Sure, in extreme situations. Not because a bloke asks your son to apologise.

I'd say it's down to the person to decide if a circumstance is 'extreme' - as a single mum if a man turned up at my house, not realising he knew where I lived, and made demands, I'd say my feelings would be extreme.

@JustLyra

Sure, in extreme situations. Not because a bloke asks your son to apologise.

You don’t get to decide when someone is intimidated.

If someone is intimidated by a stranger turning up on their door step then flight or fight is a perfectly understandable instinct to have.

Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t make their feelings wrong or weird.

Indeed.

We don't all have a bully husband to hide behind I guess

The mum is right. The dad shouldn’t have gone round to her house. It would have been different if he’d seen the mum at the school gate

True. Especially as the mother never gave them her address. Who turns up at a stranger's house uninvited?

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop
Did your friend take on board any of your points? (and you made some good ones! How it would have come across as intimidating, how getting her Dad to intervene on a doorstep wasn’t helping her to become more assertive etc) or utter denial?

I’ll be honest, I’ll feel aghast about that for the rest of the day. I also have a girl who I would like to assert boundaries more, but can’t imagine a universe in which that would extend to ‘send around my burly husband to the doorstep of a recently widowed single mum to ask for an apology for a fairly standard in school matter regarding 7 year olds play’. So I may be over invested!

I really do hope the mum of the boy complains to the school

I think the dad is being unfair. Doesn't sound like it was a big enough deal for the teachers to have got involved in at the time, so he should have left it and had a chat to his daughter about sticking up for herself.

Out of interest are you the mums friend or the dads?

Just throwing it out there; is MintyMabel one of the parents of the girl referenced in the original story? Cannot imagine why she's kept bashing away at this for half a dozen pages otherwise.

Oh and for reference since it's being debated, when I used to work in the nightlife industry my stock response to sleazy men making me uncomfortable was always a firm and sharp Fuck Off.

I also would have been entirely freaked out about how the guy got my address! I can’t believe your friend didn’t see how utterly appalling her husband’s behaviour looks

@OwlBeThere

He should have taken it up with the school and teach his daughter that ‘sticking up for herself’ doesn’t involve intimidating women but speaking up to a teacher.

Quite.

First response is to encourage daughter to speak directly to the boy herself. If she feels unable to do this.
Encourage her to report to a teacher herself. If she feels unable to do this
Father reports it to the school.

The father handled this terribly. He is definitely in the wrong. Still, at least the boy's mum modelled to the girl what standing up for yourself REALLY looks like.

@bongsuhan

"It's called male privilege - the comfort of never being intimidated by the opposite sex. Maybe ask women how they feel about men approaching them? Most men don't have a clue how intimidating this is, and that's a problem."

OK, fair enough - I've always seen that in the context of actually acting intimidating or in the course of a confrontation. But I've never thought about it in terms of being intimidating even in the course of a normal/friendly interaction. I'll have a think :)

(And I would class speaking to another parent about kids as a normal parent-to-parent interaction (rather than a confrontation), but that may be different here (I'm not in the UK))

Yes please. Have a big think. And get your mates to do the same whatever size they are. I’m 50 and disabled. I don’t look disabled and I don’t look my age. So a lot of assumptions are made about me.

It was out of order to go around.

Is the dad expecting to intimidate and get into a brawl with a 7 year old boy?

Ridiculous.

I'm not sure why people are branding the boy as violent - the OP said it was a"shove" during a game which could have been entirely accidental. He may well be violent, but I don't think that can be assumed from the post. Kids play, sometimes they get over excited. I do not agree with what the dad did, which was a complete over reaction. Unless the girl was hurt, in which case the school would have dealt with it anyway?!

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

As a big burly bloke myself, what is it I need to do?

Don't confront lone women on their doorstep who you have no business confronting.

No one is saying burly men shouldn't speak to anyone.

I am quite surprised that - beyond the question of whether or not an apology was called for or not and whether or not this should have discussed via the school - the act of talking to a woman can be seen as intimidation in and of itself

It's called male privilege - the comfort of never being intimidated by the opposite sex. Maybe ask women how they feel about men approaching them? Most men don't have a clue how intimidating this is, and that's a problem.

Don't just assume you don't have to adjust your behaviour at all because you don't find yourself intimidating.

This is excellent advice. My DS is currently 15, argumentative and 6 ft 1" tall. He's lankily built, rather than burly but he got quite upset with me after an argument earlier this year when I told him he was aggressive and that I felt like I was in an abusive relationship.

He was upset, and denied it - but I pointed out to him that although I wasn't intimidated by him, that he needed to be aware of the fact that he wasn't a 'little boy' anymore. He might only be in his teens, but he's over 6ft and getting angry, shouting and looming over women is utterly unacceptable. I told him that he needed to think about this at school. That standing up and arguing with female teachers (or male) was not on, and that he could be perceived as intimidating and aggressive. It's difficult with stroppy teens, but actually it's one of the things about growing up male that you need to be aware of. Lack of self control in someone who towers over you is frightening.

I think this needs to be pointed out to boys sometimes.

I remember living in Germany when I was a child, my younger brother had pushed a girl while playing, they was both 5 years old!

The young girls father new my Dad had been deployed to Iraq, so came round banging on the door, and started shouting at my mum, mum was quite scared and I remember being scared to I was only 8!

Dad phoned up 3 days later for his phone call, my mum told him what happend, she was crying down the phone, my dad was fumming, he managed to get the mans phone number, through work, well a couple days later the bloke came round with flowers and apologised to my mum, still didnt stop my dad popping round his house to have a quiet word with him on his R&R!