Children apologising: who IBU in this situation?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Disclaimer: I’m neither family in this but my friend is.

A year 2 (age 7) girl gets shoved in the playground by a boy when they were playing cops and robbers. This really upsets her but she's not forthcoming with standing up for herself. When she gets home, because she knows the boy lives around the corner, she gets her (6ft tall and stocky - this is relevant) dad to take her to his house so she can knock on the door and ask him to apologise. The boy’s mum is a widow, an older mum (early 50’s) and it’s just the two of them living there. The dad/family of the girl know this.

When the girl and her dad arrive and say Thomas shoved her today and they’d like him to come to the door and apologise, Thomas’ mum says no because “it’s just what happens when children play sometimes they get shoved” and that the dad was out of order to come round as it’s intimidating for her living on her own to have an unexpected and ‘burly’ man knock on her door making demands.

The family of the girl say they think this is out of order and an apology should have been given, they’re trying to teach their daughter to stand up for herself especially when it comes to boys being rough and crossing physical boundaries.

Who is in the right?

Telling someone to fuck off is exactly what many people do when they feel cornered and intimidated in fact it was the first thing I said to the thug who tried to mug me at knifepoint last summer.

I don't understand why adults value forced apologies so much. I think one of the reasons so many adults struggle with the vulnerability of making a sincere apology is because they were subjected to this humiliating, boundary-trampling forced apology nonsense as children.

So she was right to expect an apology from this fatherless boy and his widowed mother? But not if it was being asked for by her father who happens to be 6ft tall?

No. Neither. She should have been shown sympathy by her parents and taught how to deal with it at school. Not just say "ok let's go round then if that's what you think is appropriate".

No one should ever 'expect' an apology. As I've already said, it's a good lesson to tell kids that apologies (especially forced ones) aren't the be all and end all

Telling someone to fuck off isn’t what someone who is intimidated does. That’s laughable.

JFC - several posters have said thats EXACTLY what they do when they're intimidated. Do you think intimidated people only ever cower and burst into tears?

minty you do seem to be reading creating a different thread here

You're actually sounding quite insane now - and no I won't answer stupid questions about my teaching and how I treat my pupils.

"I can't answer your question so I will insult you instead."

@SoupDragon

a girl who had been pushed over.

Has the original "shove" become "pushed over" now?

Because apparently making things up only ever adds to the thread 🤣🤣

Minty also someone has decided that the mother "called her son a little angel" 🤣 you have to laugh

I also think it was inappropriate to go around to someone's house who they didn't know and only surmised they lived there because the DD had seen the son playing in the garden.

I would feel intimidated if someone I didn't know turned up on my doorstep and my first question would be 'how did you know my address'?

As so many have said, the correct thing to do would be to call the school , though a shove is quite a low bar for doing that. Presumably if every parent called the school every time their child was shoved at school there would be little time for teaching.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

Clearly you wouldn't have been intimidated by him then.

Once again, you can feel intimidated whist sticking up for yourself 🙄

Of course you can, most situations where you need to stand up for yourself are probably times when you're feeling intimidated

Presumably if every parent called the school every time their child was shoved at school there would be little time for teaching.

Indeed (doesn't stop parents though). If either of mine came home and said they were so upset about a shove during a rough game that they expected me to deal with it with the other parent/child I'd honestly wonder where I'd gone wrong and how I raised such a wet blanket (I'm a mean mummy though compared to many 🙈)

If this had happened in a park rather than at school, I might have a bit more sympathy with the father then there is no school to mediate and likely we know the child & parents' involved less, we've had a couple incidents where my spouse or I has had to get involved & only knew where the kid lived but as it is, no, it seems badly handled and really I do not get how getting the dad to go around teaches a girl anything about standing up for herself.

I was a little shit always involved too much at the contact games at school, and like pp I'm kinda pleased to hear about them though some discussions may be needed on making sure everyone is having fun, apologizing when needed, not joining in if it's not your thing. As an adult, when well, I enjoy sparring - sometimes it gets a bit much but some of us bigger shits still find that fun as long as everyone involved knows the risks, responsibilities, and fun of it.

Maybe this makes me a terrible person, but I've seen benefits in doing push games with my children when they were younger we'd lock hands and they'd try to push me onto a couch or push me over on the couch if I was sitting on it. It was good physio for me, and they found it funny and I think it helped my older son particularly learn how to handle and think about his strength better as he got bigger when I could no longer easily resist him, we had a lot of great, interesting conversations (and I had a couple of parents at my door that would believe anything nasty about my son because he's tall, taller than some adults before secondary, so I quickly learned to check for lies on both sides & got very confused how parents believed some of the Herculean feats my DS was accused of). I think the idea that pushing can't be part of play and is automatically nasty really does our children a disservice. I think we can teach our children the difference between play fighting and actual violence, and there are benefits, along with risks, to play fighting & doesn't automatically lead to abusive adults.

JFC - several posters have said thats EXACTLY what they do when they're intimidated. Do you think intimidated people only ever cower and burst into tears?

I think most sensible people when intimidated, walk away. They don't shout fuck off at someone if they are afraid of them.

you do seem to be reading creating a different thread here

On the contrary, I'm actually reading what happened and not making the assumption that this guy bullied or demanded, or threatened or "stormed round" just because he happens to be 6ft tall.

But nobody, let alone OP, wants to hear that because despite this being an AIBU, what OP was looking for was a whole lot of people to agree with her, and to be able to spout things like "male privilege" to insist that if a guy is over 6ft tall he has no right to ever approach anyone about anything.

@MintyMabel

But you’re assuming there is no middle ground between the girl letting the boy shove in the playground without reacting at all No, I’m responding to OP saying the girl isn’t being taught empathy. Because girls are always the ones expected just to take what’s thrown at them.

Can you really not see that there might have been a better, more appropriate way to deal with it?

Did you not see where I said I believed approaching the school was a better way to deal with this?

What I’m objecting to is the inference that the only reason he shouldn’t have gone is because he is 6ft tall and therefore automatically a bully.

What I’m objecting to is the inference that the only reason he shouldn’t have gone is because he is 6ft tall and therefore automatically a bully.

Literally no one said that was the only reason he shouldn't have gone, they said it added to how much a single woman would feel intimidated which is true for most women I would say, certainly I would feel more intimidated by that. No one should have been calling to her house though

also someone has decided that the mother "called her son a little angel" 🤣 you have to laugh

"I still have no response so I will further insult someone because they disagree with me."

I think most sensible people when intimidated, walk away. They don't shout fuck off at someone if they are afraid of them.

Some people would walk away - but the "fight or flight" thing is very true. There's no one way to behave when intimidated

But nobody, let alone OP, wants to hear that because despite this being an AIBU, what OP was looking for was a whole lot of people to agree with her, and to be able to spout things like "male privilege" to insist that if a guy is over 6ft tall he has no right to ever approach anyone about anything.

You should really write novels with that scope of story telling

Literally no one said that was the only reason he shouldn't have gone

Literally, it is the point of the OP.

That, and widows can use their status never to be questioned.

@MintyMabel

also someone has decided that the mother "called her son a little angel" 🤣 you have to laugh

"I still have no response so I will further insult someone because they disagree with me."

But you did say that 🤷‍♀️ did you expect no one to call you out on adding embellishments to someone else's OP?

@MintyMabel

Literally no one said that was the only reason he shouldn't have gone

Literally, it is the point of the OP.

That, and widows can use their status never to be questioned.

No it isn't.

The burly man vs widow was mentioned because it was relevant in how it made the mum feel.

What aren't you getting?

There's no one way to behave when intimidated

There is a wrong way.

You should really write novels with that scope of story telling

So it IS ok for a guy who is 6ft tall to stand up to a woman if he feels she has done something that needs to be addressed? Glad you came round to tthat way fo thinking.

Minty - you are creating a different thread when you've embellished the OP's statements

shoved = pushed over
claiming Thomas' mother said 'he was an angel'
claiming it had been inferred the only reason the Dad was wrong to go round was that he was over 6ft tall..

Honestly, stop digging

@MintyMabel

also someone has decided that the mother "called her son a little angel" 🤣 you have to laugh

"I still have no response so I will further insult someone because they disagree with me."

"I'm just going to keep making facetious remarks rather than addressing the fact I've made things up"

Father is unreasonable and just taught his daughter she needs someone else to stand up for her.. and that intimidation is an appropriate behaviour. What a lost opportunity to encourage his daughter to develop the skills to stand up for herself. I'd have closed the door on him.

My daughter is small framed, slight and invariably the smallest child in her class. She often complained of being pushed / shoved / knocked over in the play ground - I taught her to get up dust herself off and get back in there. We talked about ways that she could manage this herself (no teachers etc), how while she may be small she can be mighty (helps I'm small with a big mouth lol). Her confidence grew and she started to stand up for herself.

@MintyMabel

JFC - several posters have said thats EXACTLY what they do when they're intimidated. Do you think intimidated people only ever cower and burst into tears?

I think most sensible people when intimidated, walk away. They don't shout fuck off at someone if they are afraid of them.

you do seem to be reading creating a different thread here

On the contrary, I'm actually reading what happened and not making the assumption that this guy bullied or demanded, or threatened or "stormed round" just because he happens to be 6ft tall.

But nobody, let alone OP, wants to hear that because despite this being an AIBU, what OP was looking for was a whole lot of people to agree with her, and to be able to spout things like "male privilege" to insist that if a guy is over 6ft tall he has no right to ever approach anyone about anything.

I think you need to read up on the fight/flight response that kicks in from situations including intimidation. It's something that cannot be helped in terms of how you react to a situation.

www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/fight-flight-freeze#in-the-body

I’m affraid girls dad is a lose cannon. Who in their right mind goes to knock on Y2 classmates door and demand appology?.. If their girls was thay affected this could have been dealt with through school.

I assume you’re boy’s mum. I’d raise this with school. It is not acceptable and intimidating. That family needs to learn better ways to teach her dd assertiveness, without engaging her burly dad.

@MintyMabel

There is a wrong way.

Pray tell oh wise one, what is the "wrong way to feel intimidated"? Should women STFU when being intimidated lest they actually have the nerve to stand up for themselves?

I think most sensible people when intimidated, walk away. They don't shout fuck off at someone if they are afraid of them.

“Fight or flight” instinct is a very well known thing when someone is scared.

There's no one way to behave when intimidated

There is a wrong way.

What utter nonsense! The point is you can't control how you react in a situation you find threatening.