Children apologising: who IBU in this situation?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Disclaimer: I’m neither family in this but my friend is.

A year 2 (age 7) girl gets shoved in the playground by a boy when they were playing cops and robbers. This really upsets her but she's not forthcoming with standing up for herself. When she gets home, because she knows the boy lives around the corner, she gets her (6ft tall and stocky - this is relevant) dad to take her to his house so she can knock on the door and ask him to apologise. The boy’s mum is a widow, an older mum (early 50’s) and it’s just the two of them living there. The dad/family of the girl know this.

When the girl and her dad arrive and say Thomas shoved her today and they’d like him to come to the door and apologise, Thomas’ mum says no because “it’s just what happens when children play sometimes they get shoved” and that the dad was out of order to come round as it’s intimidating for her living on her own to have an unexpected and ‘burly’ man knock on her door making demands.

The family of the girl say they think this is out of order and an apology should have been given, they’re trying to teach their daughter to stand up for herself especially when it comes to boys being rough and crossing physical boundaries.

Who is in the right?

@MintyMabel actually I think the OP was blaming the parents rather than the child. They don't appear to be teaching her to stand up for herself at the time and pander to the idea that she can get either one of them to someone's door and 'demand' an apology over something they never actually saw happen. The OP says she's over sensitive. Does that mean she really can't handle other children or does it mean that she's learned, from her parents reaction, that she actually doesn't have to do anything except get tearful or whatever and mum or dad will get it sorted out - to her satisfaction. If that carries on you end up with a manipulative teenager.

How much should she just accept and smile and say "there there" for?

Is anyone saying she should?? Or maybe the child could just say “stop it, I don’t that” or “don’t push” or tell the teacher on playground duty. You know, normal, proportionate responses to playground misbehaviour.

I had this happen to me at a soft play centre. Kids had been in the play area. I saw my son come out - he looked sheepish if I’m honest. A few mins later a dad came over to me telling that my son had done this and that (can’t remember what - pushed her probably) and refused to move until I had told my son off. I know the dad hasn’t been in the play area with the kids so didn’t see this happen, so I was going to firstly ask my Son what had happened. I explained this to the man and he still stood there. So I just sat there looking at him as as important it was for him to stand up to his daughter it was important for me not to be intimidated by him too. He was a twat as I’m very strict and if he’d just gone my boy would have got an interrogation. But as he just stood there, by the time he’d left I was over it tbh and just thought he’s being a dick and the moment had kinds passed to talk to son.

If a 6ft busybody man challenged me in public over something he thinks I did wrong, he'd be getting told to fuck off and leave me alone

Clearly you wouldn't have been intimidated by him then.

What's it to him what other people do?
It is his business when he can't use the space our DD needs.

Is anyone saying she should??

yes. OP thinks she needs to be taught empathy.

Dad was completely in the wrong. What a pathetic arse.

7 yr olds playing cops and robbers (perfectly normal) resulting in excited unpremeditated push/shove (perfectly normal) . That's not bullying.

Dad's premeditated decision to demand and intimidate a 7 yr old and his lone mother hours later at home, into a forced apology, totally unacceptable. That was a grown man bullying a child and a woman.Teaching his daughter that's what big men do.

IF he really thought a one-off playground push while playing that kind of game needed adult follow up, he should have contacted the school.

This child would, trust me...... especially for someone who seems to have a lot of conflict with her peers!

Is making a shitty comment about the kid. Who up until now was just a girl who had been pushed over. Now she's not a nice girl who fights with her friends.

@MintyMabel

I said "if he's churlish and cheeky" I'd let it slide. Where did punching in the face come from?!

I'm wondering how far you'd let "empathy" be an excuse for bad behaviour. And how far you expect a 7 year old to be hurt before she has a right to expect an apology. Cheeky, pushing past, you're happy with that. What if he punched you in the face? Or deliberately pushed you over in the carpark. That ok? You want this girl to be taught she has to expect boys to treat her badly if they are having a hard time. How much should she just accept and smile and say "there there" for?

You're actually sounding quite insane now @MintyMabel - and no I won't answer stupid questions about my teaching and how I treat my pupils. It's not relevant to this thread whatsoever and will only be used as a "gotcha" moment for you no doubt

@MintyMabel

for all your horror at the 7yo boy playing cops and robbers, your blind to the fact that your husband is clearly a bully. If a 6ft busybody man challenged me in public over something he thinks I did wrong, he'd be getting told to fuck off and leave me alone. What's it to him what other people do?

He is not "clearly" anything. What exactly did he do wrong other than be over 6ft tall? If he had been 5ft tall, was he allowed to go round and ask?

No, he wouldn't.

But the fact that he's 6 foot tall adds to how he comes across to people, and that's not ok. I do wonder if he'd be such a bully if he was smaller. Tell me, is it only ever women he picks on?

@MintyMabel

Is anyone saying she should??

yes. OP thinks she needs to be taught empathy.

But you’re assuming there is no middle ground between the girl letting the boy shove in the playground without reacting at all and getting her dad to go round to the boy’s house and stand on the doorstep demanding an apology! Can you really not see that there might have been a better, more appropriate way to deal with it?

And I bet my bottom dollar @MintyMabel husband doesn't approach blokes bigger than him about what they shouldn't be doing

Has done often. As have I. Because neither of us believe that how someone looks is relevant to anything much.

I also would never ever ask "what happened between the you and X" in front of the child and their parent (ie at the doorstep) because that will panic a child. That's a conversation to have in private.

Clearly you wouldn't have been intimidated by him then.

Once again, you can feel intimidated whist sticking up for yourself 🙄

@MintyMabel

Is anyone saying she should??

yes. OP thinks she needs to be taught empathy.

Making things up now - nice. Please tell me the time of the post in which I said my friend's DD "should be taught empathy"

But you’re assuming there is no middle ground between the girl letting the boy shove in the playground without reacting at all
No, I’m responding to OP saying the girl isn’t being taught empathy. Because girls are always the ones expected just to take what’s thrown at them.

Can you really not see that there might have been a better, more appropriate way to deal with it?

Did you not see where I said I believed approaching the school was a better way to deal with this?

What I’m objecting to is the inference that the only reason he shouldn’t have gone is because he is 6ft tall and therefore automatically a bully.

@SmokedDuck

The mum. The dad should have asked the daughter why she didn't ask for an apology at the time.

He was totally wrong, he only had his daughter's version of events, knowing how children charge around the boy may not even have realised he bumped into her. Parents who involve themselves in their children's trivia are doing them no favours. The mother would have been totally justified in calling the police to report the man's threatening and intimidating behaviour. I wonder if he would have gone round if the boy had a 6 foot father?

just a girl who had been pushed over

This is just fantasy. Nowhere does the OP say the girl had been pushed over or injured.

She had been 'shoved'. No pushing over happened.

Although I don't think it would kill a child (even a female one who's apparently more delicate than boys according to some here) to show empathy to a peer who very suddenly lost his dad aged 6 - if empathy = not taking your dad to his house to demand an apology for a (probably) non issue

I think everybody should be taught empathy. Don’t you?

What I’m objecting to is the inference that the only reason he shouldn’t have gone is because he is 6ft tall and therefore automatically a bully.

There are multiple, multiple posters saying this was inappropriate whoever went, Mum or Dad.

The daughter specified that the Dad should go not the Mum. Wonder why? (obvs everyone knows why)

What I’m objecting to is the inference that the only reason he shouldn’t have gone is because he is 6ft tall and therefore automatically a bully.

Which no one has said. But it's relevant in this context because the other mother felt intimidated because of this

I would feel exceptionally intimidated but like most people my reaction would be to fight back as I’m not someone who is going to get intimidated and harassed in my home. So I would tell the father in no uncertain words to get the fuck off my property, call the police and report to the school. There is no contradiction between being terrified and standing up for yourself, rather the opposites—because you don’t want them to think they can get away with this. And I would be wanting the school to have strict words with the parents, and the police to do so too. No man has any right to intimidate me in my doorstep.

Making things up now - nice. Please tell me the time of the post in which I said my friend's DD "should be taught empathy"

So she was right to expect an apology from this fatherless boy and his widowed mother? But not if it was being asked for by her father who happens to be 6ft tall?

Once again, you can feel intimidated whist sticking up for yourself
Telling someone to fuck off isn’t what someone who is intimidated does. That’s laughable.

a girl who had been pushed over.

Has the original "shove" become "pushed over" now?

@MintyMabel for goodness sake read the thread. The OP said, quite early on that...

"I think her DD is overly-pandered too and has had a history of telling tall tales when it comes to my own children - eg coming and saying my DD said she wasn't very nice, but it turns out she omitted that she'd called my DD a nasty name. That kind of thing. And her parents blindly believe everything she says at face value. She has an issue with another girl at the school where she's claimed she's being bullied, but the other girl says it's the other way around (I suspect, like most cases with kids, it's a bit of both)"

So nowhere did the OP state that the girl was just a child who had been pushed over. The girl was shoved in a game, accidentally or deliberately we'll never know because rather than go to someone at the time she got daddy to go and sort it out. Except he didn't. He's probably going to have a call from the school asking him to sort out school things with the school.

Both children are in the wrong but the mum did the right thing by telling the dad to back off as it's not his fight.