Children apologising: who IBU in this situation?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Disclaimer: I’m neither family in this but my friend is.

A year 2 (age 7) girl gets shoved in the playground by a boy when they were playing cops and robbers. This really upsets her but she's not forthcoming with standing up for herself. When she gets home, because she knows the boy lives around the corner, she gets her (6ft tall and stocky - this is relevant) dad to take her to his house so she can knock on the door and ask him to apologise. The boy’s mum is a widow, an older mum (early 50’s) and it’s just the two of them living there. The dad/family of the girl know this.

When the girl and her dad arrive and say Thomas shoved her today and they’d like him to come to the door and apologise, Thomas’ mum says no because “it’s just what happens when children play sometimes they get shoved” and that the dad was out of order to come round as it’s intimidating for her living on her own to have an unexpected and ‘burly’ man knock on her door making demands.

The family of the girl say they think this is out of order and an apology should have been given, they’re trying to teach their daughter to stand up for herself especially when it comes to boys being rough and crossing physical boundaries.

Who is in the right?

@DishingOutDone

I’m not having this crap about it was wrong because he was a big burly bloke, it was wrong because it was not the right thing to do and had the mother gone round it would still be wrong and the boys mum would have been well within her rights to report it.

I agree but in this case it's relevant because intimidated was how the other mum said she felt. And I think many of us, especially single mums, would feel the same

And there we have it. Bad parenting.

Oh give over. My point was, if it warranted speaking to a parent, my 5ft outspoken stance would be harder to deal with than my more reasonable over 6ft OH. Which is why he deals with stuff like that rather than me. But apparently that's wrong because all 6ft fall blokes are bullies.

Thankfully most parents know to sort things like this out through the school and have no desire to go round intimidating others. Especially over a couple of 7 year olds.

Nobody is intimidating anyone. I already stated I'd go to the school in this circumstance.

But do you not think this boy has a right to respond to the accusation before being told he has to apologise? If a boy and his mother knocked on your door saying your daughter shoved her son during a game of cops and robbers and she needs to get down here and apologise to him, would you say OK then and call her down and tell her to apologise or would you say you will need to talk to your daughter first to find out her version of events?

I would bring her down and ask her what happened. But, I would make it clear that no matter what happened, if she pushed someone over, she shouldn't have. If the boy deserved an apology he'd get one. I certainly wouldn't take the view that "it's what happens in playgrounds" and ignore it.

So if a 14yo boy whose mum died last month is churlish and cheeky, I tend to let it go because I don't see a slight on me as a reason to suspend my empathy.

And if he punches you in the face? Is that ok too?

intimidated was how the other mum said she felt.

She called him out on it, told him her boy was an angel. That doesn't sound like she was very intimidated.

And there we have it. Bad parenting.

Yup. "lioness mothers" or whatever they're called, and their male counterparts - ie "if anyone hurts my kid you'll have me to answer to" - need to take some sort of parenting course.

And bad parents produce not very nice children IME.

[quote Daydrambeliever]@MintyMabel

But yes, if an apology was required, he would seek it out.

Apologies are never "required" - they are wanted. And he and you need to learn that you can't always get what you want.[/quote]
IMO it's not actually a bad lesson to teach kids that apologies are not a magic fix, they're not the be all and end all. Especially forced ones.

@LoudestCat14

Haven't RTFT, but I don't believe for a minute a seven-year-old would come home from school demanding that her dad accompanies her to the house of another kid in her class to force an apology. More like she mentioned it and the dad decided to go round their all guns blazing. I'm with the mum on this one, it was out of order.

This child would, trust me. It's not her fault, she hasn't been taught to manage conflict properly especially for someone who seems to have a lot of conflict with her peers!

Nope a man should never turn up at the door of another parent demanding an apology, particularly if that woman lives alone and the parent is big and 'burly'.

Really disgusting actually. If someone did that to my sister who is a single mother she would be terrified, she already has anxiety from a violent ex partner and knows how aggressive some men can be towards women.

TBH I don't think anybody should be acting like some sort of public unofficial policeman towards others. No one likes a busybody. Also they may have forgotten to display their badge. There was a thread not too long about about this and because it's so difficult to get a blue badge some posters said they park in the spaces when taking elderly relatives who need to space and the closeness to the shop when there were ample spaces available. I can't argue with that myself TBH

Not getting into your bullshit excuses people give for it in order for them to feel better about taking facilities away from people with disabilities, but if OH wants to challenge people for it, so he should. He doesn't really give a toss if people like him or not. His stature should never be a reason for him to never stand up for himself.

@EverythingRuined

Do kids still play cops and robbers? 👀

DD along with half of her class have been playing everyday for over a week now

I think it's just tag with jail really!

I agree with so many that in this case the shove could be accidental or malicious, there's no way of either parents knowing so best left to school to deal with

This child would, trust me. It's not her fault, she hasn't been taught to manage conflict properly especially for someone who seems to have a lot of conflict with her peers!

Ahh, we now reach the part where we blame the child because she just isn't a good kid.

Nice.

@MintyMabel

intimidated was how the other mum said she felt.

She called him out on it, told him her boy was an angel. That doesn't sound like she was very intimidated.

"told him her boy was an angel."

She didn't say that at all.

And if he punches you in the face? Is that ok too?

I said "if he's churlish and cheeky" I'd let it slide. Where did punching in the face come from?!

If he shoved past me out the classroom I'd let it go. That would be the equivalent in this situation, because my friends 7yo was shoved, NOT punched in the face

She didn't say that at all.

She dismissed his behaviour (pushing over a girl in the playground) as "just playing" Does that sound like someone who thinks her child has misbehaved?

@MintyMabel

intimidated was how the other mum said she felt.

She called him out on it, told him her boy was an angel. That doesn't sound like she was very intimidated.

@MintyMabel it's perfectly possible to be both intimidated and call people out on it at the same time. I certainly do! The definition of "feeling intimidated" doesn't include "and doing nothing about it".

Exactly. Ultimately apologies are just words. Demanding apologies is just an expression of power. I would much rather my child learned to change their behaviour through natural consequences than thinking they can whatever they like as long as they apologise. An genuine apology is nice to receive. I can't imagine that I would be particularly inclined to apologise to someone who demands it. I don't think 7 year olds are any different.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop Blimey, it sounds as though the kid is learning to like confrontation as much as her dad!

@MintyMabel

She didn't say that at all.

She dismissed his behaviour (pushing over a girl in the playground) as "just playing" Does that sound like someone who thinks her child has misbehaved?

It was cops and robbers. I imagine there was a lot of shoving. That's not necessarily misbehaving. Or maybe it was - but to assume it was and charge round demanding an apology is not the way to handle it. It should be dealt with at school

told him her boy was an angel.
Where does the OP say that??

Her (the mum’s) response told the dad that his response (turning up on their doorstep, unannounced and uninvited) was disproportionate and inappropriate. Which it was. In her situation I wouldn’t have given him the satisfaction of an automatic apology either. That doesn’t mean I assume my own children are angels, just that I won’t engage with such heavy-handed, bizarre behaviour.

I said "if he's churlish and cheeky" I'd let it slide. Where did punching in the face come from?!

I'm wondering how far you'd let "empathy" be an excuse for bad behaviour. And how far you expect a 7 year old to be hurt before she has a right to expect an apology. Cheeky, pushing past, you're happy with that. What if he punched you in the face? Or deliberately pushed you over in the carpark. That ok? You want this girl to be taught she has to expect boys to treat her badly if they are having a hard time. How much should she just accept and smile and say "there there" for?

@MintyMabel for all your horror at the 7yo boy playing cops and robbers, your blind to the fact that your husband is clearly a bully. If a 6ft busybody man challenged me in public over something he thinks I did wrong, he'd be getting told to fuck off and leave me alone. What's it to him what other people do?

Her (the mum’s) response told the dad that his response

The mum's response was that its ok for her boy to push a girl over in the playground because it's just playing.

And I bet my bottom dollar @MintyMabel husband doesn't approach blokes bigger than him about what they shouldn't be doing.

Dad and daughter out of order. School problems to be dealt with by school not “ parent on parent “. Different if in the park after school but equally inappropriate for dad to bully mum / boy

for all your horror at the 7yo boy playing cops and robbers, your blind to the fact that your husband is clearly a bully. If a 6ft busybody man challenged me in public over something he thinks I did wrong, he'd be getting told to fuck off and leave me alone. What's it to him what other people do?

He is not "clearly" anything. What exactly did he do wrong other than be over 6ft tall? If he had been 5ft tall, was he allowed to go round and ask?

@MintyMabel

This child would, trust me. It's not her fault, she hasn't been taught to manage conflict properly especially for someone who seems to have a lot of conflict with her peers!

Ahh, we now reach the part where we blame the child because she just isn't a good kid.

Nice.

could you contradict me more?

I said "it's not har fault" and your response is "AHA blame a child why don't you" 😂😂 comical really