Children apologising: who IBU in this situation?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Disclaimer: I’m neither family in this but my friend is.

A year 2 (age 7) girl gets shoved in the playground by a boy when they were playing cops and robbers. This really upsets her but she's not forthcoming with standing up for herself. When she gets home, because she knows the boy lives around the corner, she gets her (6ft tall and stocky - this is relevant) dad to take her to his house so she can knock on the door and ask him to apologise. The boy’s mum is a widow, an older mum (early 50’s) and it’s just the two of them living there. The dad/family of the girl know this.

When the girl and her dad arrive and say Thomas shoved her today and they’d like him to come to the door and apologise, Thomas’ mum says no because “it’s just what happens when children play sometimes they get shoved” and that the dad was out of order to come round as it’s intimidating for her living on her own to have an unexpected and ‘burly’ man knock on her door making demands.

The family of the girl say they think this is out of order and an apology should have been given, they’re trying to teach their daughter to stand up for herself especially when it comes to boys being rough and crossing physical boundaries.

Who is in the right?

I said "older mum". That's not ageist, it's just putting the situation into a truthful context. It's not a criticism FFS

Why did you feel it necessary to say she was an 'older' mum, in her 50s? Do you think it would have made her more or less likely to be intimidated by this man?

I was 50 when DD turned 9 and was no more vulnerable than a mother in her 30s (like you).

I do, however, think your friends are a pair of shits (a) for sending The Man round and (b) for not being sensitive to the fact that mother and son had been recently bereaved.

I hope you've told them.

All this furore over a mild shove. Blimey.

Dad sounds like a thug.

I think, if I were the girl's parents, I'd be having a word about the 'getting dad to take her to the house so she can ask for an apology'. I'd be pointing out that that can actually appear to be bullying as you're getting someone obviously bigger than the person concerned to 'demand' an apology.

I'd also be telling her that, if it happens again, she should see an adult at the school at the time. Yes, I know that they are also 'bigger than the person concerned', but they're impartial and well used to dealing with squabbles, bullying, general thumps and bumps.

When DS was little we used to role play these sort of things if they happened at school and DS felt unable to deal with it. He had one little girl who used to 'put' him on a time out line which the school used to calm the rowdier kids down. She would put his arms by his side and physically move him. We taught him, through playing it out, to just cross his arms in front of him, break the cross shape by pushing his arms out and shouting 'don't do that, I don't like it' - so that others knew he was being pushed about. Then go and tell a grown up. It stopped within a week - she didn't realise he didn't like it because he didn't speak up and the school didn't realise the girl was doing it. Soon dealt with, no one was feeling put upon, DS learned to stand up for himself knowing we would support him and we didn't have to resort to bearing down on someone's doorstep for a very minor thing.

The DD needs to learn to stand up for herself and, of course, the boy needs to learn to apologise if he does wrong. But it doesn't need to escalate to burly dads popping out to defend their girls - it just needs someone to tell her how to handle it properly.

The girl won’t learn to stand up to others if her father takes control every time. He needs to explain to her how to deal with this the next time. He should not have gone over to the lady and boys house, it’s a school issue and it should be dealt with at school.

The Dad was utterly inappropriate.

Something happens in school, you go to the school and they sort it. You definitely don’t bring a big, burly Dad round to intimidate a child, even if he’s been intimidating towards a peer. It’s not the same!

We played tag with the boys. I remember hurtful things (un-reciprocated crushes, left out of a party invite etc), but there was no shoving.

That’s very surprising.

I’ve worked in multiple schools over the years and there’s not one that I can think of that has absolutely zero instances of shoving. It happens in games.

Your friend should be really embarrassed of her husband’s thuggy behaviour, not bursting with pride at either him or the dd.

Why did you feel it necessary to say she was an 'older' mum, in her 50s? Do you think it would have made her more or less likely to be intimidated by this man?

Well, yes quite frankly. Is that so hard to imagine that the older a person is the more vulnerable they feel up against someone 20 years younger than they are?

Last year, he died of COVID apparently

Bloody hell.

Your friend and her DH should be ashamed of themselves OP. This boy has been bereaved in the past year. His Mum is a new widow, having been widowed in horrendous circumstances. And they're making her life worse and intimidating her for something that should have been dealt with via the school.

I expect the school are already supporting this boy and his Mum through what must be the worst time of their lives. I hope she tells them about this intimidation so they're aware and can ensure any issues can be dealt with at school from here on.

Totally inappropriate behaviour by the Dad. Sounds like the boy shoved as part of a game (he shouldn't have but still, these things do happen) but the Dad took a calculated decision to go and make a grieving widow's life harder. Rather than phoning the school.

I mean he's not really teaching his daughter to stand up for herself by having big daddy come as a body guard knowing only a woman lives there with the boy. I certainly wouldn't get my son to apologise either without knowing exactly what happened, obviously the boy shouldn't be picking on girls but is that what happened?, I'd want to be sure. They were playing a game that I would imagine gets a little bit physical

Both really. Not sure what I’d do if a Dad turned up at my door insisting my child apologise to theirs, it would be extremely intimidating. The Dad should have gone to the school. The Mum definitely should encourage her son to apologise though, I don’t think children should get away with pushing another child over at all.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

Oh and the reason the dad went round and not the mum was because the DD insisted it had to be her dad

And your friend and her dad always does what their pandered to / spoilt 7 yo says ffs. She’s 7. She knows the difference between a man and a woman already, doesn’t she?!

What did you say to your friend? I’d be looking at her very differently after this.

If that dad did that to me I would log a complain against him to the police.

To add to my post. I hope the boy’s mum complains to the school. And gets a community police officer to have a word with the dad as well. A child lost his father last year and the girls’ parents are showing zero compassion. Shoving is subjective, especially to a young child.

As someone, who lost a parent as an older child, I’m totally infuriated.

Your friends are idiots and thugs.

The dad doesn’t know the full story. As parents we NEVER do. These things need to be dealt with at the time. If the girl can’t deal with it at school I do understand that as I have a shy child myself. However I am constantly teaching her how to handle this sort of thing for herself. It’s our job as parents.

Nothing would possess me to march round to a child’s home to force an apology out of them even when I have been very cross about something I’ve been told. Mainly because I have to bear in mind that I wasn’t there and don’t know both sides. It is not the way to deal with things.

The mother did the right thing. But I do hope she had a word with her son afterwards after rough play at school and encouraged him to apologise privately if it seemed warranted.

So a man can't come to someone's door if is over what, say 5'8? The fact he's 'big' is irrelevant - how was his demeanour? That's more relevant and would be relevant in determining whether they were unreasonable whatever their sex or build.
The mum sounds like she's just making excuses for her son's behaviour. I'd want my child to apologise if they'd upset someone, even if it was accidental.

Where does the OP say the man shouted, made demands (the phrase used was 'they'd like') and how has he behaved 'like a nutter'?

If I were the mum, I'd have been getting my kid to the door to apologise.

Btw, for a shy child not good at standing up for herself she sure knew how to escalate things!

My shy child would have been mortified if her father had done the same.

He could be a man the size of Tom Thumb and it would still be the wrong thing to do.

Cam2020 a man shouldn’t go to a front door to demand an apology from a child full stop. They absolutely mustn’t do it if they are aware the child lives with a woman alone, and no dad is there.

The bigger and heavier built the man, the more he has to be aware of his size and power, and take steps to make sure he doesn’t intimidate others. It’s on him to make that assessment and err on the side of caution.

It would also be wrong for a mum to go around and demand an apology as it should be going through the school. But the circumstances and sex of the participants makes it wrong in more ways.

A mum at my kids’ school did something similar - she approached some girls of about 8/9 in the playground to demand an apology for her Dd. Those girls’ parents weren’t present.

She got banned from going into the playground before and after school.

(NB my children were not any part of that incident it involved my friend’s Dd)

You just don’t go round to someone’s house when your child get shoved in the playground

This. It should be dealt with in school.

Well, yes quite frankly. Is that so hard to imagine that the older a person is the more vulnerable they feel up against someone 20 years younger than they are?

You are being utterly ridiculous. You're talking about someone in their 50s not a frail, elderly person.

I'm late 50s and wouldn't be intimidated by someone just because they're younger. I'd be on my guard because they were male (regardless of their age) and because they were clearly trying to act The Big Man and impress their "womenfolk".

I'd have done my best to control my temper, tell him I'd speak to the Head in the morning and that I was closing the door and would call the police if he knocked again.

I might actually tell him to fuck off and take his wimpy little shit of a daughter with him