To ask wtf is cis privilege and why does it need to be tackled

[KateWinceyette]

Seriously, what is cis privilege? My phone doesn't know because it corrected it to customer privilege!

Please explain to me in simple terms for I am simply a woman who doesn't get it.

When are trans people "denied" access to healthcare? If you mean "gender affirmative" healthcare, lots of people are on waiting lists for treatment, because there simply isn't capacity, particularly at this time.

@OhWhyNot

Its utter fucking nonsense

A few men (and it is a very few) feel they are women and now have so much power we females (real women) are having decisions made for us by them

And we have cis privilege what a fucking joke it’s male privilege once again deciding what it right for women

It makes my blood boil I can’t ignore it when it’s starting to impact on the lives of real girls and real women

Agreed. This is why people need to contact their political representatives and voice their concerns. Otherwise politicians will just be led by whoever shouts the loudest. They must know that most of us don't agree with this. Laws are being changed around this, and unless we speak up, it will take a lot to claw back our rights.

It is perfectly possibly to have empathy for a person suffering from gender dysphoria and acknowledge that trans people require respect and should not be discriminated against, whilst also understanding that sex based rights and spaces must be maintained for the safety and comfort of women and girls.

I’m not convinced many trans women want to be seen as women

They want to be seen as objects of desire

It’s so one dimensional

Otherwise politicians will just be led by whoever shouts the loudest.

And it just takes a quick look on Twitter to see who that is.

I have always found the biggest irony in this is that it is a group of people demanding how they should be labelled (otherwise it is literal violence), Labelling people in a way that they don't want to be labelled (and getting away with it).

Now correct me if I am wrong but isn't that privilege?

@WallaceinAnderland

Do I have privilege, I wanna know How can I tell if I have privilege? (Is it my periods) Oh, no, you'll be deceived (Or endometriosis) Oh, no that's make believe If you wanna know (Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop) If you have privilege (Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop) It's in your cis (That's where it is, oh yeah) (Or is it childbirth) Oh no, it's just for fun (No autonomy) That's not for you and me If you wanna know (Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop) If you have privilege (Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop) It's in your cis (That's where it is) Oh, it's in your cis (That's where it is) Whoa, rape threats, abuse and assault That's what all the terfs know If it's priv, if it really is It's there in your cis (How 'bout the no platforming) Oh no, that's not the way You're not listenin' to all I said If you wanna know (Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop) If you have privilege (Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop) It's in your cis (That's where it is) Oh, It's in your cis (That's where it is) Ooh, oh it's in the cis Oh, oh, it's in the cis That's where it is That's where it is

Applause

The hypothetical job interview one irritates me:
‘There’s a woman and a transwoman up for the job, it’s likely that the interviewer will be transphobic, so the woman has “cisprivilege”.’
Actually, bollocks; the interviewer is likely to go through a thought process along the lines of ‘I don’t like transpeople... but look at that woman... she’s potentially going to get pregnant/take time off with sick kids/have caring responsibilities... “welcome aboard, Fae McFaeface, let me show you where the powder room is”.’

Its a very great privilege FrippEnos

Edinburgh University has fallen so far down the rabbit hole on this one, it's frightening to think that there were no critical thinkers present, at any stage, to question what they were actually endorsing with this.

I would have loved to see Magdalen Berns call out her former university on this.

Your phone is correct -it doesn’t exist. If people actually got on with actually trying to improve their lives and stop playing victims then the world just might be a better place.

Cis also introduces the concept of a qualifier to the word 'woman'. You can't just be a woman anymore, you must be a type of woman, cis, trans, black etc. Your qualifying word becomes more important than the word 'woman and reduces the validity of 'woman'.

@FrippEnos yes I don't get that. The mind literally boggles with how quickly violent hateful attitudes are displayed by the very people asking for protection from violence and hate .

There has to be some psychology behind that. I think the extremist portion of the trans movement must be riddled with aggression and hatred but they deny it or something, hence why they accuse women of it. It's much better to get rid of it - you're the bigot, you're the hateful one, but deep inside they must be full of it. Because it's a total over reaction isn't it. It doesn't quite fit. It's bizarre to be sooooo aggressive and hateful to those you claim that you actually are. There has to be envy in there too.

I don't quite understand why .

@Victoriabythesea

It means you have a privilege to never be discriminated against because of your cis status. It doesn't mean you're privileged in general and have it easy, it means if you come face to face with transphobia it won't affect you because you're not trans.

Like white privilege. It doesn't mean you have it easy because you're white, it means systemic racism doesn't affect you.
Cis people can have a huge range of issues that means they're at a disadvantage, but they're at an advantage if there is transphobia because they are not trans. Literally that's all.
Straight privilege is the same. You're never going to be attacked by homophobes because you're straight.

I completely agree.

As someone else said about white privilege ‘you’ve got 99 problems but your race ain’t one’.
It doesn’t mean that your life is easy but that this is one problem you don’t have.

While I think there is a whole host of bullshit around trans I do think this that training is reasonably ok. ‘Do say this, don’t say that’ training is fine but some of this crosses the line.

So I am privileged for not being discriminated against because I am a woman

Well I know that is a load of bollocks

A trans women will be discriminated against because they are trans

I will be discriminated against because I am a woman

So it’s not the same as white privilege. A black person can never have white privileged but a trans women can have male privilege and will have grown up having male privilege

@EastWestWhosBest
While I think there is a whole host of bullshit around trans I do think this that training is reasonably ok. ‘Do say this, don’t say that’ training is fine but some of this crosses the line.

The issue is that when it does cross the line there is no comeback. If anyone complains or points it out they get shouts of "transphobe", "abusers" ,they lose jobs,they have the police at their doors, they get doxxed, they get threatened with violence and rape.

If there are no limits then how far will it go? It already went too far.

Cis also introduces the concept of a qualifier to the word 'woman'. You can't just be a woman anymore, you must be a type of woman, cis, trans, black etc. Your qualifying word becomes more important than the word 'woman and reduces the validity of 'woman'.

That's a really important point - never thought of it quite like that before.

Gender is a sexist and regressive ideology based around social constructs and stereotypes, and many women reject it because of that. We don’t have a gender, we have a sex, and we call ourselves women because it’s the term for adult human females.

Labelling us ‘cisgender’ imposes gender ideology on us without our consent. That’s not privileging us. That’s oppressing us.

@titchy

I think it means we should find sexual assault, endometriosis, low pay and wife work positive affirmations of our female cisgender and learn to embrace them.

Unlike transwomen who never get to experience the physical and emotional trauma of being a biological female. Poor things.

Quite

There are likely to be several female students who don't menstruate, because they're mature students past menopause, are on period-stopping contraception or other reasons. Actually, ceasing to menstruate is a natural part of every woman's life. Yet nobody gave a shit about this before....?

Trans people have the same right & access to healthcare as others.

What they don’t have a right to is instant access to cosmetic surgery. Exactly the same as other people.

@OhWhyNot

So I am privileged for not being discriminated against because I am a woman

Well I know that is a load of bollocks

A trans women will be discriminated against because they are trans

I will be discriminated against because I am a woman

So it’s not the same as white privilege. A black person can never have white privileged but a trans women can have male privilege and will have grown up having male privilege

Yes, why is this one privilege being emphasised so much? Where are the similar guidelines on micro-insults for students on what not to say about about their able bodied privilege that many of us have when speaking with disabled people? Or for men, on what not say to women to ensure their male privilege don't seep out? Or indeed on wealth privilege when speaking with people of a lower socioeconomic status?

Why all about this one tiny group?
This just seems like an attempt to control what people (women) say.

if some huge 6 footer comes into your lecture hall and has put on his make up badly and has a dress on don't giggle and just carry on regardless. Be nice to people. We are taking all this far too far and damaging women but if we just remember that core issue - try to be kind to everyone we cannot go too far wrong

Oh god Xenia don't lecture us on being kind

I wouldn't giggle at the badly made up bloke anymore than I'd giggle at a woman who'd put her make up on badly. I wouldn't be kind if he wanted to use the women's loo, apply for a role specifically open only to women or compete in a women only sport.

Because some trans women have such deeply ingrained male privilege they can’t recognise that themselves or don’t care too

I don’t claim to know how it feels to be a trans women as I have not shared their experiences as they have not shared mine of being a girl and a women

Apparently being born a woman and facing a lifetime of sexism as I live as a woman is a privilege.
Far worse to be born a man (enjoying male privilege) and then face prejudice as a trans. Apparently.

In Detransition, Baby, a book by a transwoman that was recently longlisted for the Women’s Prize for fiction, one of the trans main characters enjoys being hit by men because of a belief that ‘cis women confirm their genders through male violence’.

I think some people have been shocked by Mumsnet because they assumed that a primarily parenting website would be full of submissive ‘cis’ women willingly conforming to gender stereotypes and happy to share makeup tips in between comparing prams.