To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

You are a sweet innocent summer child if you think going to a private school will insulate against bullying sex and drugs!

Lol at this. I went to boarding school (very tame country one) and we did get up to stuff - not sex but more likely booze, weed not really harder stuff back then. I have a 16 year old in a good state school and no issues but may be using private for another. Doing it is one thing but paying for the privilege is another ;

@paralysedbyinertia my female friend that went to a stateschool told me about her going through physical bullying. Now she did go to a school in a more problematic area but from what she told me those girls would have had me for lunch

The one in state does have triple science and FM, just reading back, which I’m very pleased about. I didn’t realise it might not be the case, so got lucky.

[quote lovepickledlimes]@paralysedbyinertia my female friend that went to a stateschool told me about her going through physical bullying. Now she did go to a school in a more problematic area but from what she told me those girls would have had me for lunch[/quote]
Fair enough. Doesn't reflect my experience, though, nor does it prove that physical bullying never occurs in independent girls' schools. At the end of the day, the children who go to independent schools are not a different species.

So much depends on how effectively schools are able to manage any bullying. Some will get it right, others will fail miserably. In both sectors.

@Ariannah

I was the studious kid in my bog standard comp who sat in a classroom with chewed up bits of paper ("ernies") flying around the classroom and kids bouncing in and out of their seats. I just got on with the work. It’s not about the work. It’s about being the odd one out with no friends because you’re the only one who works hard and doesn’t drink alcohol or smoke or suck cock. It’s about being bullied because you actually do the work. It’s about being isolated and afraid and crying every night. Children need friends, they need to be with a peer group that’s similar to themselves. Putting a decent child in a school full of reprobates is in many cases a death sentence.

I find this post really offensive, my son tried to take his life due to horrific bullying at a private school.

You have some serious issues that clearly need addressing. How on earth are you going to cope if your precious little darling has to go to College or Uni with the nasty rough state school kids that make up over 90% of children in this country?

I am also lolling at the thought of my two geeky (now grown) comp educated kids (and their lovely friends) being described as reprobates! One a Cambridge grad now teaching and writing, the other embarking in a career in public health having gained a first in maths and a Masters at LSHTM. Hilarious

Most children go to state schools. Most of those schools are not too bad and some are excellent and some very bad. about 8% of children (500,000 children) to go fee paying schools and on the whole they tend to be better as more money and committed parents but not all are better than all state schools. I was happy to pay fees for a range of reasons.

20% of children at sixth form level I think are in fee paying schools.

Here it sounds like most of the fees will not even have to be found, the mother is a teacher too so I think private is the right choice here.

Mumsnet really is in its own little bubble. The vast majority of parents in the UK can't afford to send their children to private school, so essentially that means writing off the futures of 90% of children (going by some of the ridiculous elitist opinions on here) simply because they are attending state schools.

My husband and I both attended state schools, we both have excellent qualifications and careers. My children both attend state schools and are doing brilliantly.

These attitudes are really quite shocking and sad, to think that a child would be written off as a 'reprobate' or 'oik' or 'problem child' simply because their parents couldn't afford private school?

Also, I'm not usually a pedant, but the SPAG of some of these privately educated posters suggests that perhaps their parents didn't get value for money.

In response to the OP, only you know what is the right thing to do for your children, but I would suggest you make sure you can comfortably afford all fees for all 3 children without relying on bursaries, as despite what the school may say, these can be removed or reduced in the future.

All the caht on this thread about 'manners' and networks is exactly why I'm taking my kids out of private primary and putting them into state secondary. I hate this type of attitude as it tends to lead to bratty kids who look down their nose at 'oiks'.

My kids need to know that a big proportion of kids have nothing close to what they have. They need to know that some kids have chaotic home lives. They need to know that for some kids it is about more than just working hard at school, it is about having supportive parents who dream big things for you and have ambition for you.

I am really uncomfortable with how easily some people on this thread write off young people for being 'rude' or 'disruptive'. They just ghettoise them further and cut off the opportunities even further by pulling their kids out of the system. And I say this as someone who is guilty of exactly this at primary and it sticks in my craw listening to some of the kids and parents.

I don't think Mumsnet is in a bubble, there is a good cross section of society on here every day, from people living on benefits in dreadful accommodation to those who have reasonably big houses and good jobs (plus the majority of us who are in between).

Those I know whose kids went private did so because their local state schools were known to be not good. Had they been at least reasonable, the children would have gone there.

I would like to see more money put into state education, it is woefully underfunded and has been for several years. Every child deserves a good chance.

However if it isn't happening where you live, you have to do your best for your children as far as possible. At the same time you can lobby your MP and vote for a party that will prioritise state education.

Also, lots of parents are gaming the system yet further by taking their kids out of school in their final year (Scotland, so they already have their grades), and putting them into bog standard comps so that they are more likely to get a good Uni place, as they have quotas in place now for private school kids. Makes me a bit ill to think they are stealing uni places from the kids it is designed to help.

Not RTFT as don't have time but for what it's worth, here's my opinion.
There are good, bad and indifferent state schools and good, and good,bad and indifferent independent schools. And even those of us who have experience of both sectors can only have seen a tiny fraction of the whole. Plus different children thrive in different environments - there will almost inevitably be some children who are happy and successful in a particular school whilst others are simultaneously unhappy and/or struggling.
OP, I would suggest you don't view your decision as "private or state" in a general way, but compare the actual schools that you are choosing between very specifically. Also, if there are advantages at the private school do they represent value for money, or could you provide those elements of education in a different way for less?
It makes me raise an eyebrow that you've been offered very generous bursaries though, because I've seen that happen in a couple schools and it has turned out that they were in financial difficulties and were desperate to get any pupils in paying something. A family in our village were in a similar position to you a few years ago. Their year 6 child was "head hunted" by the local independent school fot Year 7 and offered a generous scholarship. They were then persuaded to move their other children from their (very good) state schools, also with substantial fee reductions. Less than a year later the school announced it would be closing and the parents were all left scrambling for places elsewhere for the next year. The family we know didn't get any of their children back into the school they'd left and some families ended up with multiple children in different schools. I've got a relative who experienced similar in another school in a different area. Now I'm sure that's not the only reason private schools offer generous bursaries, but having seen it twice within a few years I have to confess I'd be wary and I urge you to do your homework very carefully.

Lots of pro's being shared here.
I went to private school, and whilst it's impossible to say what I would have achieved at state school, I'd like to think I would have still come out with the good Alevels I did. However what I did leave private school with was paralysing anxiety issues and a fear of failure, complete and utter inability to socially interact or relate to others, and an embarrassing sense of entitlement.
Academically and on paper my school delivered a success story. Beyond that, I am truly ashamed of the person they turned out.
Thankfully some self awareness in my early twenties followed many years working on myself mean I am pretty much unrecognisable from who I was then.

@Maggiesfarm

I don't think Mumsnet is in a bubble, there is a good cross section of society on here every day, from people living on benefits in dreadful accommodation to those who have reasonably big houses and good jobs (plus the majority of us who are in between).

Those I know whose kids went private did so because their local state schools were known to be not good. Had they been at least reasonable, the children would have gone there.

I would like to see more money put into state education, it is woefully underfunded and has been for several years. Every child deserves a good chance.

However if it isn't happening where you live, you have to do your best for your children as far as possible. At the same time you can lobby your MP and vote for a party that will prioritise state education.

I agree that more should be invested in state education. It would benefit the whole of society. But where's the impetus for this when so many politicians go private and never actually see how the other half (or 93%) live?

How on earth are you going to cope if your precious little darling has to go to College or Uni with the nasty rough state school kids that make up over 90% of children in this country?
Typically the problem kids don’t go to university. If they do then they’ve hopefully matured beyond bullying. At the very least, because students are over 18 that means bullying can be treated as assault and harassment which can be dealt with by the police. Perhaps if it was taken more seriously at a younger age it wouldn’t happen. I find it shocking that a 15yo can freely commit a crime for which a 19yo would be arrested and prosecuted.

FWIW, I don’t think it’s strictly a case of private vs state schools. It’s about catchment areas. There are some good state schools but that pushes local house prices very high so it still ends up being a school for the rich. And if you live near a bad state school your kids get sent there and you have very little choice in the matter. Whereas if you’re rich you can choose a good school in another location and pay for it, it’s no longer a postcode lottery. At the end of the day, if private schools weren’t the best then the rich wouldn’t use them would they!

@Ariannah

FWIW, I don’t think it’s strictly a case of private vs state schools. It’s about catchment areas. There are some good state schools but that pushes local house prices very high so it still ends up being a school for the rich. And if you live near a bad state school your kids get sent there and you have very little choice in the matter. Whereas if you’re rich you can choose a good school in another location and pay for it, it’s no longer a postcode lottery. At the end of the day, if private schools weren’t the best then the rich wouldn’t use them would they!

Wow such hate towards the poor and in your narrow mind inferior. If those are the values you are teaching your children then I would not want them near mine and I am glad they are now in fantastic state schools. Plenty of rich self made parents choose state school for their children and there are also excellent schools in socially deprived areas which do a fantastic job. From my comp in a rough area amongst my peers there are 2 doctors, 4 lawyers, a judge and the list goes on. The same with my DH peer group , himself included went to Cambridge. We will have to agree to disagree, there were some of the vilest kids I have ever come across when my DS was private, how does that make it the “best”?

@Ariannah

How on earth are you going to cope if your precious little darling has to go to College or Uni with the nasty rough state school kids that make up over 90% of children in this country? Typically the problem kids don’t go to university. If they do then they’ve hopefully matured beyond bullying. At the very least, because students are over 18 that means bullying can be treated as assault and harassment which can be dealt with by the police. Perhaps if it was taken more seriously at a younger age it wouldn’t happen. I find it shocking that a 15yo can freely commit a crime for which a 19yo would be arrested and prosecuted.

You're still labelling the poor as bullies and not acknowledging that bullies come from all classes and income brackets.

Plenty of rich self made parents choose state school for their children
And they buy expensive houses to be in the catchment area of those schools. So it ends up being self selecting in the same way as a private school because only the rich can afford to live in the catchment area.

there were some of the vilest kids I have ever come across when my DS was private, how does that make it the “best”?
If state schooling was so great then the rich would keep more of it for themselves.

It can come down to being unlucky with your year group or class. A neighbour teaches at the local top private school which she says is excellent but admits there are certain forms even in that school that she wouldn’t want her own child in. Hence why all the generalisations about state and private are actually unhelpful it’s so localised.

With that kind of discount and your financial circumstances it's daft not too I would take into consideration how secure is oh job? Mil likely to be able to keep payments up ?

@Ariannah

Plenty of rich self made parents choose state school for their children And they buy expensive houses to be in the catchment area of those schools. So it ends up being self selecting in the same way as a private school because only the rich can afford to live in the catchment area.

there were some of the vilest kids I have ever come across when my DS was private, how does that make it the “best”?
If state schooling was so great then the rich would keep more of it for themselves.

This is really offensive now.

At the end of the day, if private schools weren’t the best then the rich wouldn’t use them would they!

Such an incredibly simplistic view! I don't even know where to start.

Firstly, perceived value isn't actually the same as actual value. Lots of people assume that private education is better simply because they have to pay for it. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is better.

Secondly, there are plenty of people who could afford private education but choose not to pay for it. Presumably, those parents would not agree that private is necessarily better than state.

Thirdly, schools are not all created equal. There are good private schools and bad private schools. There are good state schools and bad state schools. A good state school will be infinitely better than a bad private school. Comparing across sectors is meaningless, you can only compare specific schools. And even then, the offer from one particular school will work better for some kids than others.

And finally, not everyone who chooses private necessarily chooses it because they think it's better from an educational point of how view. Some choose it for the convenience of wrap-around childcare and all-inclusive extracurricular activities. Some choose it because of family tradition. Some choose it because of the snob value or perceived status. None of these reflect on the quality of education on offer.

@Ariannah, most state secondary schools have a pretty mixed cohort based on catchment area. There will usually be a mix of richer middle class kids, children from deprived families and everything in between. I have worked with lots of schools in a professional capacity, and I have never seen a single school full of "reprobates", even in the most deprived areas. I think this is in your imagination tbh.

Primary schools are sometimes rather less diverse, I grant you, but even then, most will have a reasonable mix of children.

Of course many well off, prominent people choose state schools. Their children are bus'd to the selective grammar school.