To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

I would think very carefully OP. My DS experienced private and state at junior level and my key experiences were:

It was the only time he ever put on weight as the outside space was very small compared to state schools.

Pick up was excruciating as almost all the parents were materialistic and competitive.

We felt helpless when he was bullied by one boy as he had two siblings at the school and was fawned over by staff.

The class sizes were smaller but I don't think the monitoring of his levels was nearly as good as at state school.

My BiL was in private education all his life - he's doing well career wise but actually said yesterday that he regretted it. It was mainly because he always felt he didn't belong as he was the poor scholarship kid and also, his parents worked so hard to keep him and his brother there that they had no structure at home.

My parents could only afford to send one child to Independant school, so my brother went there and I went to the local state school. He did have superior education to me and a wider variety of subjects and got mainly A grades at GCSE level. But the bullying he endured was horrendous there. I actually faired better in the long run.

A very difficult decision we have recently made as well. Our DS1 was previously attending a private school for foundation and then for reception we got a place at a very good primary school. We dwelled a lot about what to do, we can afford private fees for both our kids but we are not rich, so other things have to be sacrificed. In the end we decided to keep DS1 at the private school and let the place in the good state to another child who would reap all the benefits of that school. What made if for us was the stronger resources, nicer facilities, a variety of extracurricular activities and child focused care. I think he would he happy in both but we could afford one thing and I prefered to sacrifice other things - bigger house, better car, nicer holidays etc.

Not necessarily true that a bright child will do do well anywhere.

My DD could 'do' the schoolwork', and was bright enough to swan through with no work, she listened (presumably) to the teacher explaining the work and thought it wasn't necessary to actually show she could do it.

A case of "too bright for her own good"? She did very well at GCSE, to the surprise of the state school, who told me she was "a nice child, bur dim", and at 6th form college. As I've said before she went on to do an M.Sc at Uni.

She said it wasn't worth getting a Ph.D because it was only useful in academia. One might argue with that, but she did go on to work in a major industry for a salary that was considerably more than mine!

but dim!

@Ariannah

I was the studious kid in my bog standard comp who sat in a classroom with chewed up bits of paper ("ernies") flying around the classroom and kids bouncing in and out of their seats. I just got on with the work. It’s not about the work. It’s about being the odd one out with no friends because you’re the only one who works hard and doesn’t drink alcohol or smoke or suck cock. It’s about being bullied because you actually do the work. It’s about being isolated and afraid and crying every night. Children need friends, they need to be with a peer group that’s similar to themselves. Putting a decent child in a school full of reprobates is in many cases a death sentence.

at the idea that there are state schools just full of "reprobates" with only one "decent child" in each year group!

Some of you have a seriously fucked up view of what state education looks like!

Can you shut up about sucking cock? You are implying all 13 year old girls at state school suck cock, which is revolting and offensive. I don't see why state school children would be more likely to get involved in underage sexual activity above private school kids. Please stop with the crude smearing of well over 90% of children in this country.

@paralysedbyinertia depending on that nature of the one 'decent child' all it might take is a hand full of 'reprobates' to intimate them into not speaking up in class, being scared in school, scared to say anything, scared to draw attention to themselves etc

@Ariannah

I was the studious kid in my bog standard comp who sat in a classroom with chewed up bits of paper ("ernies") flying around the classroom and kids bouncing in and out of their seats. I just got on with the work. It’s not about the work. It’s about being the odd one out with no friends because you’re the only one who works hard and doesn’t drink alcohol or smoke or suck cock. It’s about being bullied because you actually do the work. It’s about being isolated and afraid and crying every night. Children need friends, they need to be with a peer group that’s similar to themselves. Putting a decent child in a school full of reprobates is in many cases a death sentence.

A death sentence?!! “Reprobates”...what are you on about!

[quote lovepickledlimes]@paralysedbyinertia depending on that nature of the one 'decent child' all it might take is a hand full of 'reprobates' to intimate them into not speaking up in class, being scared in school, scared to say anything, scared to draw attention to themselves etc[/quote]
Newsflash - bullying happens in EVERY school.

@Nameregretter of course but it is more severe in some school more then others. I was bullied in my private school but tje harassment I got from kids outside my school at times is more then enough to let me know how much worse it would have been at a state school

[quote lovepickledlimes]@paralysedbyinertia depending on that nature of the one 'decent child' all it might take is a hand full of 'reprobates' to intimate them into not speaking up in class, being scared in school, scared to say anything, scared to draw attention to themselves etc[/quote]
Yes, I agree, and I have already started further up the thread that a child who is lacking in confidence might benefit from a private school environment. Likewise for a child with average academic ability or a child who is lacking in self motivation/work ethic.

I am absolutely not denying that some children will benefit from what private schools can offer. I am just saying that a bright, confident, hardworking child with supportive parents will do well in any environment, and may sometimes actually benefit from the socio-economic diversity that a state school has to offer.

I don’t think the level/severity of bullying varies by whether a school is state or private but on how the leadership of the school manage it. My husband went to one of the top London day schools and was very badly bullied because he didn’t take drugs, whereas my state school didn’t have any drug issues and bullying was dealt with well.

Yep, terrible reports in the local media about horrendous racist bullying at a private school near us, which was very poorly dealt with by the school. Bullying can happen anywhere, and you're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't happen in the private sector.

Putting a decent child in a school full of reprobates is in many cases a death sentence.
A death sentence?!! “Reprobates”...what are you on about!
Lots of decent kids try to commit suicide because they’ve been placed in a class full of bad kids where they’re bullied for being too posh/smart and have no friends. I was one of them. As an adult I’ve met several others. Yes it can be a death sentence if the child succeeds in killing themselves.

Newsflash - bullying happens in EVERY school
Then why are we as a society putting our kids in this situation? It ruins lives. Sometimes it costs lives. We don’t permit adults to be bullied so why do we subject kids to it?

@Ariannah

Putting a decent child in a school full of reprobates is in many cases a death sentence. A death sentence?!! “Reprobates”...what are you on about! Lots of decent kids try to commit suicide because they’ve been placed in a class full of bad kids where they’re bullied for being too posh/smart and have no friends. I was one of them. As an adult I’ve met several others. Yes it can be a death sentence if the child succeeds in killing themselves.

Lots of kids in private schools attempt suicide too. Sadly, mental health issues are common in the teenage years across both sectors.

I'm really sorry that you struggled at school, but if you honestly believed that you were the only "decent" child in a class full of "bad kids", I would gently suggest that your problem may have been one of perception rather than reality.

@Ariannah

Newsflash - bullying happens in EVERY school Then why are we as a society putting our kids in this situation? It ruins lives. Sometimes it costs lives. We don’t permit adults to be bullied so why do we subject kids to it?

I totally agree that we shouldn't put kids in this position. Schools need to get better at dealing with this situation. Some do a good job, others don't. However, this is not a state vs private issue.

@Nameregretter

I don’t think the level/severity of bullying varies by whether a school is state or private but on how the leadership of the school manage it. My husband went to one of the top London day schools and was very badly bullied because he didn’t take drugs, whereas my state school didn’t have any drug issues and bullying was dealt with well.

That’s so bad. Do you think it’s improved by now?

One thing I did notice about the bullying in my private school is that it was different to the bullying that was experienced by my neighbour boy who went to a state school. The bullying that went on in my school was far more phycological. Talking down to the students that are looked down upon, snide comment, etc. The bullying he was confronted with at school was far more physical, getting beaten up, having things thrown, loud mouthed intimidation etc. Though both are bad for me personally what I went through was easier to block out, keep my head down etc then what happened at his school

@Ariannah what a thoroughly revolting point of view you have of the vast majority of kids in this country. Naive too if you believe your little privately educated darlings darlings won't be exposed to underage sex, or drugs or bullying.
It's a shame you came at your argument in such an ill-educated and brutish angle because the point about children being unhappy and at risk because they are fish out of water is a good one. But that can happen in ANY school.
Jeez. I marvel sometimes at the inability of some people and parents to engage in any level of critical thinking.

I do think some people kid themselves about how "naice" and well behaved kids at private schools actually are. While it's probably true in most cases that there is less low level disruption in class, that doesn't mean that the kids are all angels by any stretch of the imagination.

I became friends at 18 with a girl who went to a very famous independent girls' school. Her brothers and sisters went to a range of other well known independent schools. The stories she told me were quite shocking to me at the time, and made the teenage antics at my state comp look very tame by comparison.

I acquired lots more privately educated friends at university, and discovered that my friend's experiences were by no means out of the ordinary.

Every school, whether state or private, will have a mixture of well-behaved kids who want to work and rebellious kids who are eager to push the boundaries. I do not believe the myth that private schools get rid of all the boundary-pushers quickly, as I have seen too many situations in which this clearly isn't the case.

Oh my lord my first exposure to drink drugs and yes oral sex (not me doing it but others) came when I stayed at 16 with my mothers friend whose dd went to the top girls public school in London I won’t name. My god those public school girls were light years ahead of me and my pals in our rural comp! I was relieved to get the bus back to Somerset !

You are a sweet innocent summer child if you think going to a private school will insulate against bullying sex and drugs!

@lovepickledlimes

One thing I did notice about the bullying in my private school is that it was different to the bullying that was experienced by my neighbour boy who went to a state school. The bullying that went on in my school was far more phycological. Talking down to the students that are looked down upon, snide comment, etc. The bullying he was confronted with at school was far more physical, getting beaten up, having things thrown, loud mouthed intimidation etc. Though both are bad for me personally what I went through was easier to block out, keep my head down etc then what happened at his school

To some extent, I wonder if this may be a reflection of gender differences rather than state/private? I have certainly heard about examples of physical bullying at our local independent boys' school, but I am not aware of any physical bullying situations involving girls, where it all seems to be psychological. Of course, there will be exceptions on both sides.