To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

I have 2 dd's at private school. For us the pros are:

Smaller class sizes
Excellent pastoral support
Wraparound care
Brilliant extra curricular activities

Tbh whilst this might sound horrible, the children have much better manners, doors are always held open, all children saying good morning etc.. when compared with local schools I have been in the difference is amazing.
The schools aspirations for its children are good, there is more encouragement to aim higher.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. My middle child has just started secondary (Y7) and having lived remotely all her life and attended a tiny village school, she’s been a bit shocked by some of the behaviour she’s seeing and her learning is definitely being affected by poor behaviour in the class. From what I’ve seen/heard, teachers are allowed to be more strict/less tolerant of poor behaviour in the private sector, which would be a bonus in my eyes.

If you are about to go back to work and can afford it then go for it. Private education is not the be all and end all but it increases their chances of doing well.

If you’re a teacher I would look at trying to get a job in a private school. Usually they give teachers heavily discounted fees or in some cases cover the entire cost. Might be worth looking into , especially if you’re looking anyway?

Would the bursaries reduce if you went back to work?

He's entitled to have an opinion. These days most scholarships & bursaries are means tested, so if you've been offered as much as you have I'm guessing your household income is under 100k?

In which case £20k out of your post tax income is a huge sacrifice. Private school fees tend to rise a lot each year, by more than inflation, and there are often lots of extra costs, so do factor that in, as with 3 kids it could really hurt your budget.

If the scholarships they have been offered are means tested, be aware that if the amounts are based on your income and it changes (because you get a job, for example), its likely what you get off the fees may be reduced too.

If you have bright hard working children, they will do well anywhere. Private schools give scholarships because they know bright kids will do well and boost their results - in reality the children that benefit most from it are often "borderline" kids for whom it's the difference between drifting along unnoticed, vs being pulled up to achieve more.

It's a huge commitment and if your DH is unsure it could be the source of constant rows & regrets any time money is short.

I was privately educated and for me the benefits were:

• Wraparound care
• Extracurricular activities and trips
• Social skills - I think I was more confident, more sociable and felt relatively comfortable having to do public speaking or meeting new people compared to peers
• academic standards. I don't feel I worked that hard at school but expectations were high and anything below a B grade was shameful! I did really well in my exams and I think that was down to the environment and support you were given - I was totally lazy so definitely not down to my own hard work.
• high standards for the future - all encouraged to go to top universities and Oxbridge.

Given the discounts you are getting I would definitely go private. You could always rethink down the line if you decide it's not worth the money but to be honest the wraparound care and extracurricular activities alone probably justifies the cost!

Neither state nor public are fit for purpose. IMO.

Hard to give a list of pros without knowing the facts about local schools. You may be able to top up with sports clubs and save for pensions without the need for private education.

What happens if you don’t get a job in September?

If your DH isn’t on board it’s a non starter even if you return to work to pay for it as it would still mean he was responsible for all the bills and can’t save for retirement as he wants too.

Pros for my girls-
Pastoral care
Small classes
Excellent facilities and provision
Amazing sports and arts opportunities
High expectations of all students, it is a given that they will continue and further their education.
Have seen a real increase in her confidence, social skills and ability to speak in public.

My two have been attending private schools. I don't think I am getting the full value of the fees I am paying - i.e., it's not worth THAT much in my opinion, even though they both are in academic selective schools. However, both outstanding state secondaries in my town have a very different vibe and not in a good way, so for me, this is worth it.

When we did our bursary application with the company that they use, we did say that we would only be able to afford to pay any fees if I got a full time job.

My husband’s salary is around 80-90K per year and we have a small income from a buy to let that we’ve just bought.

The children all got scholarships of 20%, which wouldn’t change regardless of salary, as this is based on ability. I think they’d get bigger scholarships as they progressed through the school too, given the chance to flourish even more in music and sport. The bursaries were means tested but the school have said that they’d be unlikely to change much if I got a full time job.

I’m extremely keen for us to take this opportunity and willing to sacrifice quite a lot. My husband isn’t. He doesn’t want me to hold it against him in the future as a source of discontent if they don’t go but equally I don’t want him to do the same to me if they do go! I tend to be the more impulsive one in our marriage and he’s the more practical and pragmatic one. We do usually balance each other very well but obviously this is a big commitment to make.

I went to a failing state school in a terrible area, got all As at GCSE and at 6th form
I went to a bog standard university and got a first, a distinction in my masters and then I got a PhD. I worked since I was 15 to be able to afford all that and I earn an excellent wage now.

I think on MN there’s a tendency to not want children to face a bit of hardship and to give them as much privilege as possible, and whilst that can be a good thing, so can them fighting for what they want.

I think with supportive parents and their own drive children will do anywhere. Private school seems like it just provides a network and role models, as well as more coaching into how to get into those elite universities and jobs.

Have a think about what you’re hoping to achieve by them being in private school, and then maybe see if for less than that 20k or so a year if you could still provide that.
For example could you get them each a tutor, pay for some extra help around university applications time, put them in some better sports clubs etc
Or would more cultural and educational days out and holidays be as enriching. Is there a better state school they could transfer to?

If not, then I think that’s your argument.

Of course some of the benefits depend on the school in question. I went to a very academically selective private school where I got incredible teaching and had very bright peers, which meant I got a First at Uni without having to work unduly hard by which I mean the basics like writing good essays, giving presentations and debating had been drilled into me. Not all private schools are like that, though!

I'm not equivocally in favour of private school but I do think if it's a decent school and you get a good feeling from the headteacher, the classes, the teachers and the pupils then I would definitely be going for it in your position, especially given your update re your daughter's Y7 experience.

As PP have said, the facilities, extra curriculars and class sizes are all likely to be in the private school's favour, the standard of behaviour in private schools is generally better because they can pick and choose their pupils more easily, and parents are generally very invested in their kids' education, which trickles down.

I think the pros and cons is a good way to evaluate.
I can’t recommend you one or the other. So these are just thoughts. I am thinking mostly of cons because other posters have focussed on the pros so while I agree with all the prior posters im trying to justify present new thoughts instead of repeating. Apologies if I do end up repeating.

• The bursaries you’re being offered are likely based on your current household income. Once you get a FT job, they will adjust the bursaries. So the £s you need could be higher than you currently think.

• children privately educated are not eligible for contextual offers from top universities. Contextual offers mean a child can get into a top uni with lower grades on their A levels than the published course grade requirements. So your children will be under more academic pressure.

• what is state of your pension savings? If the £20k a year is on top of substantial savings, then yes you could probably afford private schools. But if you only have state pension and very small pension, sadly I think your husband may have a point. You shouldn’t sacrifice financial security in retirement to privately educate your children.

-what are State school options? Do you have any grammar schools or outstanding schools nearby? The balance tips in favour of private education if you have bad local schools or cannot get a place at a good local school.

• school culture. How well would your children fit in? Being a poor “charity” student at a posh school is high risk for bullying. Facilities and tours show the features of a school, but it’s the other students and teachers that can make it a great school for them or a living hell.

*unequivocally! Oh for an edit function...

@Wavymess

My husband suggested the same re the extra clubs etc but what he fails to take into account is that we have three children with very different interests and it’s me that has to spend all my time driving them to and from activities. Doing this on top of a full day of teaching several times a week is quite exhausting! For me a lot of the benefits are about saving time and energy for me. I have autoimmune diseases and get very fatigued quite easily. Because he doesn’t experience that side of the equation, he doesn’t realise how much it takes out of me.

*just present .....no idea why it changed to justify.

I have autoimmune diseases and get very fatigued quite easily.

Oh sorry to hear that OP. Would your conditions shorten your working years? As in is it degenerative and are you at high risk of becoming disabled and unable to work FT before age 68? If so, you need to consider this in your assessment that there is chance you will have to stop work and your DH to cut his hours to be your carer. This would make putting extra money towards pensions even more important than for a healthy couple.

It would be silly to spend a lot on private education if it leaves you unable to help them if they go to University.

Would you have to reapply for the bursaries each year? That would be a concern given you're trying to put 3 children into private education on less than 100k a year joint wage.

I have autoimmune diseases and get very fatigued quite easily. Because he doesn’t experience that side of the equation, he doesn’t realise how much it takes out of me.

I'm sorry to hear you find it so difficult. Is it possible he is also worried that at some point down the line you might have to give up work and then the children will have to move into the state sector?

@Wavymess

I went to a failing state school in a terrible area, got all As at GCSE and at 6th form I went to a bog standard university and got a first, a distinction in my masters and then I got a PhD. I worked since I was 15 to be able to afford all that and I earn an excellent wage now.

I think on MN there’s a tendency to not want children to face a bit of hardship and to give them as much privilege as possible, and whilst that can be a good thing, so can them fighting for what they want.

I think with supportive parents and their own drive children will do anywhere. Private school seems like it just provides a network and role models, as well as more coaching into how to get into those elite universities and jobs.

Have a think about what you’re hoping to achieve by them being in private school, and then maybe see if for less than that 20k or so a year if you could still provide that.
For example could you get them each a tutor, pay for some extra help around university applications time, put them in some better sports clubs etc
Or would more cultural and educational days out and holidays be as enriching. Is there a better state school they could transfer to?

If not, then I think that’s your argument.

Agree with this

@PlanDeRaccordement

There are only two state options for us locally, both 12 miles away. One we didn’t like at all, it was very run down and results not great. The other, which the eldest two go to is a good school but we were told they did lots of music and drama, and that’s not been happening, even pre COVID. They don’t even have a school orchestra anymore!

We don’t have grammar schools in our area - the nearest one is 25 miles away.

The school I want to send them to has an excellent reputation for their ‘family’ feel. My mum works there and can confirm this. Lots of the staff send their kids there so there are plenty of day pupils who aren’t stonkingly rich.

I'm really curious as to why and where a private school is giving bursaries to a two parent family living comfortably on one income, plus owning a rental property, plus having the prospect of a teaching salary coming in too. I thought they were supposed to be for the badly off.

We have considered applying for our eldest to go a similar route, but we have decided against it. With the money saved we can afford plenty of extra curricular activities, good holidays and to save for their futures.

If money was no object, or it was only a very small % of our income I would go for it for the smaller classes.