To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

OP I have kids in state and kids in private and I highly rate private but it’s not without its flaws, namely kids who are entitled brats but still handed the world on a plate and school being unwilling to deal with kids properly as they represent huge sums of money. However small class sizes, facilities are better, higher standards in general, a culture and ethos of learning, lots of beautiful outdoor space. Another thing that I think sways towards private right now is that they’ve done so much better than state at lockdown learning. They were producing live lessons on timetable from day1. Obviously we hope that won’t be needed anymore but I’m extremely confident that privately educated children have been advantages by the pandemic over state school. My children in private didn’t miss one single thing in my opinion.

BUT... Big but. They WILL reassess your bursary for another full time income and the reduction will be significant. You can’t just get a bursary and then increase your income to pay it, that’s not how it works! There’s no point even having this conversation till you get a job and get reassessed.

I get the impression you have made your decision

I firmly believe kids will achieve the best grades possible regardless of school
I know many children in private school have not achieved what my daughter has in a state school with exams etc

The bursaries were means tested but the school have said that they’d be unlikely to change much if I got a full time job.

Who in the school said this? I would be double checking this. Also, it might be the case in this school, but it is quite unusual for means tested bursaries to remain the same year after year when parents’ means change.

@llm24

I get the impression you have made your decision

I firmly believe kids will achieve the best grades possible regardless of school
I know many children in private school have not achieved what my daughter has in a state school with exams etc

I agree. Op is quite fixed in their decision, and seems to be ignoring practicial questions, such as what will happen if the buraries are withdrawn, or how they will cope with the longer school holidays etc.

Did the bursary company confirm all the figures with you? You don’t want to later find there is a mistake as you’re not going to want to move them!
For 5k each child on your income I would absolutely take the offer if the kids like the school and it’s solvent and well resourced. I don’t think private is ‘better’ but the funding in many state schools is pretty appalling currently. Some areas better than others so it does depend on the individual schools you are choosing between

I don't think it's as simple as all privates being better or worse than states. It entirely depends on the options available to you. So, if you're fortunate enough to live in an area with excellent state schools and your kids are bright and able to get in on distance/entrance tests, then your decision will be different from if you were in an area with underperforming schools/long commute/whatever.
There are private schools I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, and states that I'd walk on hot coals to get my kids into. And vice versa.

Just prepared that you could easily lose the lot as they each move up so in only a couple of years time. Can you afford all 3 in private with no bursaries?

Op is quite fixed in their decision

Ha yes

Reading this thread so on 135k you have mananged to get between 55 percent and 75 percent bursaries for each child ??

Where the hell is this private school ?

@Troublewaters2021 I was just thinking the same thing...I got a 50% bursary and I earn £27k. My husband was unemployed when we did the bursary application too.
We were told if you earn £60k plus jointly there is zero chance of a bursary!

I think the wraparound care, while tempting, is actually one of the big disadvantages of private school. Not good imo for DC to do absolutely everything with the same group of people. Things often go a bit wrong with friendships at school, and when they do, friends from other schools that the children know through their hobbies and activities are an absolute lifeline.

@Wavymess

I went to a failing state school in a terrible area, got all As at GCSE and at 6th form I went to a bog standard university and got a first, a distinction in my masters and then I got a PhD. I worked since I was 15 to be able to afford all that and I earn an excellent wage now.

I think on MN there’s a tendency to not want children to face a bit of hardship and to give them as much privilege as possible, and whilst that can be a good thing, so can them fighting for what they want.

I think with supportive parents and their own drive children will do anywhere. Private school seems like it just provides a network and role models, as well as more coaching into how to get into those elite universities and jobs.

Have a think about what you’re hoping to achieve by them being in private school, and then maybe see if for less than that 20k or so a year if you could still provide that.
For example could you get them each a tutor, pay for some extra help around university applications time, put them in some better sports clubs etc
Or would more cultural and educational days out and holidays be as enriching. Is there a better state school they could transfer to?

If not, then I think that’s your argument.

I agree with this and its the reason we didn't send my daughter to private school. I wanted to her to strive for her success. Also dealing with the disruptive elements at school is part of learning how to deal with lots of different sorts of people. Teachers at her state school are wonderful - creative, inspirational and really accomplished - I am so pleased she's there.

If it makes it easier for you to do your teaching job then fine, I can imagine that seamless after school activities and wrap-around care would be very tempting.

1. Is the bursary based on your dh's earnings alone? Is so it could be reduced when you start earning.

1. When DS started at his independent dayschool aged 8, the fees including expenses were about £8,500. When he finished at 18 they were £21,000. That's a steep increase even if offset by bursary.

1. What if working full- time doesn't work out for you as a family or if one of thebdc needs additional support due to teenage mh/anxiety, etc. Sadly it happens.

1. What if your dh were to lose his job or be ill, etc. Do you have enough in reserve to cover the fees? Moving from state to indy is one thing - doing it in reverse is quite another.

My view is if you have to ask and don't have three/four years of fees set aside then you can't afford it. If that's the case, no point tormenting yourself about what might have been you just have to make the best of it.

This is a massive discount they'd be getting. Put it to him that it is like any quality item; getting it cheaper means that you are gaining something valuable at an extraordinary lower price.

Ask him to visit and see if he does think it offers an education of quality. Then do the argument: you can't turn it down at this sort of price.

Then try the argument: when private education goes really well, it can lead to benefits which are lifelong. The confidence which comes from having been nurtured in an environment where there are none of the distractions and challenges which present to teachers in state schools. Make a parallel with a high quality diet in childhood: it sets you up for life at time when your bones, muscles and skin is forming, ditto education when your consciousness and thought processes are developing.

But, having said that, if your daughter's have done so well as to be bursary recipient material after attending their state school, well, it must be a very good school. Unusual, when there class places are filled from current pupils, the private school sounds extraordinarily generous.

This situation presents to me as more of an interesting hypothetical one than a real one, but I have been cynical with several threads recently, and think I am seeing things as being too cut and dried to be real, when actually, they are real dilemmas.

I am not necessarily a fan of independent school, but if you are, OP, I would try the above arguments.

There is the emotional aspect of your eldest fitting into private school if she has formed loyalties to the inclusive ethos .

We couldn't get a bursary for DD when our income was >£40k ten years ago (apparently worth £52k now), so she went to state school - and smashed it.

Yes, I'd do it every day of the week.

I would grab that - it seems to quite a good offer considering your earnings, is it a school run as a charity? and are your kids grade 8 musicians?

Ours went private, top 10 schools, both with scholarships but it's very little off the full price. I think by the time they get to uni it really doesn't matter any more. In recent years it's been disadvantage when getting into uni. It didn't make any difference to us financially and if it did, I'd have trouble balancing the decision. I think it made parenting hugely easier for me - a good private school is very much on top of any quirk or developing problem your child may have. I would say that they both had an absolutely fab time at school, made friends probably for life, and are very confident/balanced. They may have been that way any way though. If you have good state schools nearby and the money would make a difference to your lifestyle, I'd probably say not worth it.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

I'm really curious as to why and where a private school is giving bursaries to a two parent family living comfortably on one income, plus owning a rental property, plus having the prospect of a teaching salary coming in too. I thought they were supposed to be for the badly off.

@Chicchicchicchiclana completely agree

Why on earth are you being offered bursaries on your income/rental properties etc when they are meant to be offered to kids who are bright and would totally benefit from the environment but with families who genuinely wouldn’t ever be able to afford the fees?

An observation from DD (in third year at RG university studying a physics degree) is that surface polish can hide some definite flaws. She has noticed that her privately educated peers are very good when they are on a subject they know but flounder when they have to work something out for themselves.

DD went to a very low achieving, under resourced state school. She would have flourished in a private school but what her state school did give her is a very good grounding in self-sufficient learning.

On the other hand contextual offers are nothing to write home about, maybe one grade if you are lucky.

Op, I really hope you are not one of these state school teachers who sends (or will send) her own kids to private schools. I have always thought that situation was the height of hypocrisy. If the state system is not good enough for your own kids, you should not be working in it. Why? Because you will not be motivated to improve the state system, and you would believe that your own kids are too good for it.

What do the DC want to do? That should be the deciding factor IMO.

Oh my God it makes me want to vomit, the sense of entitlement..." our 2"

State school, be a thoroughly decent human being and parent first and foremost.

Go for the private school. It sounds like you can afford it, and it offers more opportunities than the school they're currently at. I say this as someone who did very well at a rubbish state school but would have been much happier and more secure in myself at a private school, even if my grades wouldn't have been any different (and I now teach in a private school).

I find some of the attitudes about private schools really odd. There’s still a range of people, some disruptive, some not academically gifted, some not well off, some not very nice, some entitles. Nobody does the work for you, it’s just that it’s generally easier to learn in a group of 20 rather than a group of 30. Many are not that different to state schools, especially ones in nice areas and selective grammars.