To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

@Blowingagale It would be 10 years for all three to go through the school. As I’m only 43, I like to think that I’m more than capable of holding down a full time job for that amount of time.

I now wish that I had considered private education for my kids.

Private school does a lot of teaching children how to present themselves to appear intelligent along with how to present themselves in the most socially acceptable fashion in order to succeed.

I don't think they make clever children, or decent people. Those qualities come from elsewhere.

But there isn't a book long enough to list all the problems with the state school system and the national curriculum, so I see why parents opt for private school.

I was one of the very bright children at a standard/not great comp, I got on with my work and got decent grades, but I was essentially left to get on with it myself because the teachers had so much to deal with, classes of 30+ a lot of difficult children with behavioural issues or from very deprived backgrounds with no family support, social care involvement etc (we were poor but I always had the support of my parents). The best bit of my secondary school education was being selected for the gifted and talented programme and going to Saturday school at a local independent, it was interesting and challenging and it was seen as a good thing to be intelligent by the other pupils. I never really got picked on at school and had a good group of friends , it helped that I was sporty, but it was more of an assumption I'd get good marks rather than being pushed or my hard work recognised. The other children didn't really care one way or the other about exams etc for the most part and aspirations were about getting a job at the local ford plant or a good secretarial job 'in the city'.
We now live in an area with really excellent grammar schools, it's quite common here to go to independent prep then grammar. We live right on the edge of the catchment for an outstanding primary, but we're already saving so we can hedge our bets and move DS to prep if we don't get out first choice.
I went to an old RG university and that's where I learned more about public speaking, having the confidence to give my opinions and academic ideas, honestly because I was surrounded by mainly public school kids to whom it was just second nature.
If you can afford it, do it.

they don’t even have a school orchestra!

Is the most MN thing I’ve ever read.

The fact that you think it could/should have one, suggests it’s a thousand times better than any school I’ve ever attended

Your kids will be ok either way, they won’t become rude or lazy or fail their exams just because of their school, when their mum obviously wants the best for them

@IHateThinkingUpANewUsername Yes, purely financial as he wants to have a comfortable retirement if he can. He and his siblings all went to boarding school (parents in the forces) and he agrees that he got an excellent education as a result and perhaps got better exam results than he would have in a state school.

Have you considered what would happen if one child didn't meet the requirements to continue receiving a bursary?

Its a lot of pressure on your children to know they wouldn't be able to stay at the school if their interests and plans for the future changed.

@Wavymess

Sorry if that seemed a bit mumsnet-y It was because they had said they had one when we went to the open evening and all my children attend county orchestras and ensembles so I was very put out to not have what they said we would!

Another thing to factor in is that while there might be more wraparound care the school holidays are longer. If you teach in a state school what are you going to do about childcare at the beginning and end of school holidays?

@RampantIvy My mum works at the private school and has said she’s willing to look after them for the overlapping weeks when required. Plus my husband works from home a lot of the time.

I went to state and private schools when I was younger. There was no comparison academically...obviously it depends on the quality of the schools and how well your kids fit them. But personally I know I wouldn't have tapped into my academic potential at all had it not been for the private school, because in the state school I went to I didn't have to work at all and there was no culture of achievement.

Having said that, I'm now in a career where you don't actually have to go to university and can start with an apprenticeship or vocational course. So in terms of professional prospects it made no difference!

But yeah if you've got the opportunity with scholarships I'd go for it. See how it goes at least. It could be an amazing thing for your kids.

But personally I know I wouldn't have tapped into my academic potential at all had it not been for the private school, because in the state school I went to I didn't have to work at all and there was no culture of achievement

TBH, I think that says more about your school than all state schools @georgarina. DD went to a rather good state comprehensive where education and high achievement was the main focus. She achieved excellent GCSEs and A levels and is now at a well regarded university studying a STEM degree.

I think being offered bursaries of this value are giving your children an amazing opportunity - I would grab it with both hands.

Your state options sound logistically tough, and if you teach for the next twenty years you will not only be able to pay the fees but you will also significantly bump up your pension pot in retirement - has your dh considered this as part of the debate ?

What if you don’t send them, will you not work at all ?

I definitely think you only get these type of opportunities once and you’d be mad not to take it. The stress is on you tbh, if you hate teaching you will have to stick at it, I don’t think it would then be fair for dh to meet the shortfall.

I think it is a good thing to do, especially if the local state schools aren't up to much. In theory I would have loved mine to go state but the schools were poor. A lot of people feel the same way. You cannot let your principles stand in the way of your children getting a decent education.

It's great that yours have been offered scholarships and bursaries. Mine had that too past 11+ and it was no hardship for them to be privately educated.

Good luck to you all.

@RampantIvy yep, not disputing that. Can only speak to my own experience. I know there are some excellent state schools out there.

The messaging about the bursaries doesn't add up. Private school bursaries just are not handed out to people on incomes like yours with buy to let property! And dont believe the rubbish about not reassessing it. That's to reel you in knowing once you are there, you will scrape together every penny to keep them there

For me a lot of the benefits are about saving time and energy for me. I have autoimmune diseases and get very fatigued quite easily.

I think this is quite important. Personally, I wouldn't bother with private education because I don't think it's worth it for the vast majority of kids, but if this is about your health, then that's important to consider. Wouldn't working full time tire you out even more than ferrying the kids around, though?

‘ I'm really curious as to why and where a private school is giving bursaries to a two parent family living comfortably on one income, plus owning a rental property, plus having the prospect of a teaching salary coming in too. I thought they were supposed to be for the badly off.’

In our area it’s MC families/ upper MC families getting the bursaries because even with a big reduction you’re still talking the kind of money that most WC parents would struggle to find ‘extra’.
They give kids who have talent the bursaries as their success in music, sport, arts or academics will bring favourable attention for the school plus they can pretend not to be elitist because they’ve ‘helped’ local kids who wouldn’t be able to go there.
Friend has a DC being given 50% off fees to a very well known school as his DC is very bright and excels in an art and from a socio-economic/ diversity POV ticks a lot of boxes for them.
The remainder of the fees ( without any extra curricular or uniform etc.) is still £13k a year. Not many WC families on an average income would be able to spare that kind of money.

You cannot let your principles stand in the way of your children getting a decent education.

I went to an inner city London state school with a 20% GCSE pass rate, where over 50% of pupils spoke English as a second language.

I have 12 GCSEs all at either A* or A grade, 4 A grade A-levels, a first class undergraduate degree from a RG University plus an MA (with distinction).

There actually are some parents who put their principles first. In my mother's case she felt it was worth us perhaps getting an A at GCSE rather than an A* in order to bring us up in accordance with her principles.

I disliked school intensely, but the reasons I disliked it would have been the same at a private school.

My own view is that if you're the kind of parent who would post on MN worrying that there isn't a school orchestra at your child's state school, then your child is going to achieve their potential wherever they go to school. The types of children who would benefit the most from private education are sadly the ones who will never, ever get the chance to go.

This notion that children are private school are more polite needs unpicking. Having had to write to the head of a very well known public school to tell him that his pupil's confidence was outstanding but unfortunately so was their patronising and arrogant manner when they decided to run across a racecourse during a horse race and then argued with the stewards, I would say that I would agree. Some children are very polite and others aren't. As a general rule I would say this is more down to parenting than schooling.

I would have loved my children to go to a private school, but the amount it would cost us would mean we would have to give up the ponies, ski holidays, music lessons, and all the other things that broaden their horizons. It seems a bit foolish to give up things the whole family enjoy and benefit from together in order to be able to pay for someone else to provide those experiences at an inflated cost. Near us, we have 3 outstanding secondary schools and 2 grammars within a 40 minute journey time. There is a decent private girls school close by but no academically decent private schools for boys within an hour. There is little point even considering a private school when it costs so much for so little benefit if your children are bright anyway.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland The bursaries and scholarships are reassessed with each key stage move. This is in all of the school’s literature. We have undergone an extremely extensive examination of our finances, assets and earnings, declaring absolutely everything. This is the offer we received. I was just as flabbergasted, believe me.

Sorry, no experience in this area but just wanted to thank @Wavymess for sharing her story. My bright ds13 is at a perennially failing secondary school in a terrible area (where we also live).

I feel he will do well because he works hard and school seems to interest him, but I do worry that the school will hold him back. However, you have proved it is possible so thank you for that!

But personally I know I wouldn't have tapped into my academic potential at all had it not been for the private school, because in the state school I went to I didn't have to work at all and there was no culture of achievement. One of our local schools has a higher proportion of children going to Oxbridge than some of the local private schools. I think it depends entirely on the school. My daughter's school (state) is hugely driven by achievement.

I’m very surprised you’re eligible for a bursary. Usually having a second property and a salary of 90k would rule you out from getting any help at all and that’s without your additional salary. They are usually reassessed every year too. I appreciate that you have 3 children and thus 3 allowances but I think this school are giving way beyond what others do, and they all cherry pick the scholarship ones

Go for it. You only get one chance to give your child an education. It sounds like that is the best solution for your area - in terms of academics and clubs/sports/arts.
If your husband is so against it, would he be willing to sell out and move the family to another area where the state schools are better? He has said he "doesn't want you to hold it against him" but you will if your children miss out on afterschool activities because you can't drive everyone in every direction. You children may even hold it against him when they are applying for uni and their grades are from a mediocre school.
One chance to get it right.