To think NZ’s plans to make it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 2004 are a bit draconian?

[CounsellorTroi]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettes

I’ve never smoked (well, had a drag of my friend’s fag at 15, didn’t like it so didn’t do it again) but I can’t help feeling that making it illegal to smoke anywhere other than in your own home would suffice.

@Fiercestcalm

I think it’s ridiculous and the focus needs to be on the lax cannabis laws here and the fact police just don’t prosecute. I live in a high growing area and the amount of drug drivers, permanently stoned parents and zonked out, irrational, memory depleted teens means cigarettes are actually way down the list of priorities.

Focus first on the real issue of illegal drugs then focus on cigarettes. Few people openly acknowledge the scourge of cannabis within Nz.

This.

I don't think the propents of legalising marijuana gave regulation any thought at all, and I don't think they planned to do any.

They just wanted what they saw as a dead letter taken off the lawbook.

That's not being bold and innovative, it's just laziness.

MyDogIsDrivingMeMad

I worked in the criminal justice sector when they started banning smoking in prisons. Drug use shot up. Spice especially which can have many nasty side effects. So you make a good point that people may well end up using something worse.

Smoking, excessive drinking, drug taking, even over eating. it isn’t “just” addiction. For many it’s a crutch, and I say this as a smoker. Just removing the addictive substance isn’t going to change the “need” in that person. Again in my work I’ve seen many drug addicts get clean then become alcoholics.

Vaping was supposed to be something that helped smokers give up and yet it’s now something that many young people who have never smoked have taken up. We don’t know the long term affects of that yet. But why are they even doing it?

I’m just glad I’m in my 50s and will most likely be able to see out my days doing what I want. I hope! Because smoking was just the start. Food is also being focused on now (sugar tax etc) and alcohol will soon join. We’re heading for a future where everything we put in our bodies is regulated.

Whilst I agree with denormalization of tobacco and restrictive supply as tools to reduce consumption, along with pricing to reduce demand and education to reduce uptake, can you really have a society where certain adults are not permitted to access a legal product because of when they were born? If tobacco is legal to buy then every adult has a right to buy it.

The move towards Government being able to descriminate, curtail liberties, control behaviour and restrict fundamental rights and freedoms is now sold on 'we know what is best for you'. The health message seems to be a road for governments to do what they want.

In the old Soviet Union it was the security message that the West were out to destroy us that brought compliance of state supervision and control along we fear.
In our society it is the health message along with fear that brings subsurviency.
We never understood how 200 million people lived in an oppressive regieme, but I think we are beginning to understand now. You just need a common enemy, a virus for example, and some fear and anything is possible.

So no, it's not right that the government can legislate to descriminate against certain adults. Either ban tobacco or let everyone buy it who wants to.

Try not to analyse this situation through a British viewpoint. A large percentage of smokers in NZ are Maori or Pasifika, and elders are desperately trying to improve health and social outcomes for future generations and there is great support for banning smoking. The cost of smoking puts a huge financial strain on our healthcare system and it’s ridiculous to suggest that lost tax revenue is a consideration. This also has absolutely nothing to do with NZ’s illegal drug problem. It is shops being banned from selling cigarettes to certain age groups, for which there will be legal ramifications. Kiwis tend not to complain about a “nanny state” nor hate their government just for the sake of it. Banning cigarettes is a good thing. It is not draconian. Bring it on!

What a bloody great idea! Ifs absolutely fucking rank.

It's a much more honest approach than simply preying on addicts because you don't want to lose the tax benefit they bring to the coffers

@HappySwordMaker

Try not to analyse this situation through a British viewpoint. A large percentage of smokers in NZ are Maori or Pasifika, and elders are desperately trying to improve health and social outcomes for future generations and there is great support for banning smoking. The cost of smoking puts a huge financial strain on our healthcare system and it’s ridiculous to suggest that lost tax revenue is a consideration. This also has absolutely nothing to do with NZ’s illegal drug problem. It is shops being banned from selling cigarettes to certain age groups, for which there will be legal ramifications. Kiwis tend not to complain about a “nanny state” nor hate their government just for the sake of it. Banning cigarettes is a good thing. It is not draconian. Bring it on!

There is already packaging restrictions, pack size restrictions, no advertising, soon possible restrictions on the amount of nicotine and age restrictions on sales that it isn’t worth it to remain as a tobacco company in such a small market.

It’s already about $36 NZ for a 20 pack of Benson and Hedges reds and most of that is Tax.

Because making things illegal is guaranteed to get rid of them permanently. I mean, it worked for heroin and cocaine, right?

I’m an ex smoker and I think it’s a daft idea making smoking illegal won’t work it will just make people go and buy them from the black market it will never stop people from smoking. Drugs are illegal doesn’t stop people from doing them does it making something illegal doesn’t automatically mean it will not happen people will just get sneaky about doing it. They need to come up with a better idea.

I think it's a fabulous idea!

Like it or not the tax from tobacco and alcohol actually fund the NHS. Which sounds stupid .but I worked in hospitals for years and the tax brought in a lot more money than accosiated diseases cause which is ironic but true .so doubt we could even afford to ban

Any plans to restrict sales need to be accompanied by proper enforcement. I've never been convinced that age limits are always enforced in retailing, perhaps partly because of fear of abuse or violence from those who are refused a sale.