To think NZ’s plans to make it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 2004 are a bit draconian?

[CounsellorTroi]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettes

I’ve never smoked (well, had a drag of my friend’s fag at 15, didn’t like it so didn’t do it again) but I can’t help feeling that making it illegal to smoke anywhere other than in your own home would suffice.

That’s not entirely true. Nicotine has been identified as potentially having benefits for therapeutic use in Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s and ADHD. It’s a hard sell given the image issues but I think there’s a general recognition that in small doses nicotine isn’t actually harmful. It can be lethal in large quantities like many other substances of course.

But you don't need to smoke to get nicotine into your body.

Ex smoker - occasionally have a fag if drinking. It's a truly disgusting habit and would be all for an all out ban. I usually have a cheap pack from the Polish shop at home but don't really go through them they cost about £4 I couldn't imagine spending £11 on a deck of 20. It stinks and is such a burden on the health service its unbelievable. If underage people ask me to buy, similar to what I done when I was young it's a straight no. I can't understand why they are still legal now or why any one would start with what we know about it.

I doubt that a 16 year old who has never smoked would be bothered to seek out a black market of cigarettes.

Presumably teenagers seek out illegal drugs as you hear of teenage users, so I don't see that cigarettes would be immune from this.

To all those pointing out that smoking as a way of taking nicotine is bad, I completely agree, my point was that if someone is going to compare the benefits of alcohol to smoking then both should be recognised as harmful with better ways to achieve whatever small benefits might be achieved through ingesting them traditional recreational means.

There is a slight PR problem with researching nicotine for medicinal use but that’s an aside really. No ones trying to encourage smoking but that flip side of that is even uttering nicotine in the context of a treatment is socially unacceptable.

@Mydogdoesntlisten

Nanny0gg, why? How does someone else smoking affect you?

Stench Smell. Second hand smoke. Losing both parents due to smoking.

I'd love to see it banned everywhere

For some reason DD started smoking.
Probably at age 17.
We don't smoke.
Few of her friends smoke.
Her siblings hate smoking.
DH would be horrified to find out.
Nonetheless somewhere along the way she decided she fancied it.
And has stuck with it.
I guess we will see what happens in NZ.

@CounsellorTroi

I doubt it because alcohol in moderation doesn’t kill you. There’s no such thing as smoking in moderation

Yes. Alcohol isn't harmful if you don't abuse it. Tobacco kills when used exactly as intended.

Alcohol kills too, and not just in the ‘I got stupidly drunk and a tragic accident befell me’

It’s a big risk factor for a lot of different cancers. This is just from casual use, not just heavy drinking.

My son is in his late twenties and he has smoked on and off for a few years :( nobody else in the family does and only a few of his friends.
I hate it , but there isn't anything you can do. He is an adult and it's his money he is wasting and health he is compromising.
Even these measures came to the UK it wouldn't stop him either of course!
I would love them to be banned completely, but it won't happen. (Luckily he can't smoke at work at any time so that helps a bit! )

Drug policy around the world is absolutely Insane - tobacco use is devastating and results in the death of around 7million people every year.

The "war on drugs" doesn't work - banning substances just drives them underground.

This approach seems to strike a good balance and obviously people could still access tobacco if they wanted to - but it's another barrier to help with keep driving down smoking rates in young people.

The teenage brain is immature, and teenagers are often silly risk takers and keen to rebel against authority. I suspect that making it illegal would make it even more attractive to them.
Perhaps we should instead make vegetables, vitamins and early nights illegal for teenagers?!

Prohibition's worked so well in the past, after all.

NZ is going through a bit of weird time at the moment, the 5 eyes agreement is being looked at after the ties to the CCP, which is much more substantial to the cries of Russian interference of the US/Brexit vote.

Add to that the decades of research of war on drugs policies not working, we can look back to the US with the abolition of alcohol as to how stupid this is, it doesn't matter that smoking kills, or how abhorent it is, saint Jacinda is missing a lot of nuance and is just instilling a more authoritan state.

I'm 42 days into giving up smoking, was smoking 30ish rolleys a day, was spending close to £300 a month I reckon!

If I still smoked and it was made illegal, I would be using a "drug dealer" to get my cigarettes!

I think they should be banned world wide. And I'm an ex-smoker. I started at 15 like a twat and it was very very hard to give up.

All it does is kill you... why would we allow people to damage themselves like that? Let alone the cost to the NHS!

I smoke & I've said that would be a great idea for years.

The first few years there'd be some moaning, but it wouldn't be long before smoking was something only old people did so young people wouldn't be interested in acting like their grannies & grandads & they'd never start in the first place.

They'd have to include vaping etc... to make it really work so anything with tobacco in it, but if they passed a law now saying anyone born after 1st May 2003 could never buy tobacco products in this country smoking would disappear over the next few decades forever.

I think it’s a great idea. Phases out the smoking for those who do and don’t want to stop but doesn’t create a new generation of addicts.
Smoking shouldn’t be legal. If sd knew then what we know now I wouldn’t have ever been allowed.

@CounsellorTroi YABU. It's a great idea!

@user1471447863 there has never been any profit in selling cigs in shops. It’s pennies. My parents owned a shop, by the time they sold it a pack of 20 was nudging £8-9, they sold them as people bought other stuff while they were there.

Cigs were a bit of a PITA for them TBH as they got broken into more than once and the display shutters on the cig stand were damaged. Didn’t cost them anything as the tobacco companies pay but it’s replacing broken windows/doors and the hassle. They used to empty the stand and leave the shutters each night so the burglars wouldn’t bother in the end.

I think it’s brilliant. Over time there won’t be anyone left for whom it is legal to sell cigarettes to. The industry will die but slowly. No one has their liberties affected who already chooses to smoke. Lives will be saved. I think it is genius.

I've not RTFT but I agree it's genius... I came up with this idea years ago. Difficult to enforce though.

@Justanotherlurker

NZ is going through a bit of weird time at the moment, the 5 eyes agreement is being looked at after the ties to the CCP, which is much more substantial to the cries of Russian interference of the US/Brexit vote.

Add to that the decades of research of war on drugs policies not working, we can look back to the US with the abolition of alcohol as to how stupid this is, it doesn't matter that smoking kills, or how abhorent it is, saint Jacinda is missing a lot of nuance and is just instilling a more authoritan state.

I live in NZ and what people overseas often don't appreciate is just how quickly laws can get made here and without much thought.

On the one hand, the Gvt wants to phase out cigarettes. On the other, it wanted to legalise dope and isn't paying much attention to vaping. It doesn't have much of a plan regarding meth and detox programmes, along with the rest of the health system, underfunded.

A lot of what looks like boldness is actually just a couple of randoms in an office in Wellington going "yeeeeeah, choyce ahdea bro!"

I live in NZ and have never smoked but I don't agree with this. Smoking is way down the list below alcohol for the harm it does. Most drugs are illegal and yet there is still a huge world-wide problem, so people have no trouble getting their hands on them. If young people want cigarettes they will get them.

I think it’s ridiculous and the focus needs to be on the lax cannabis laws here and the fact police just don’t prosecute. I live in a high growing area and the amount of drug drivers, permanently stoned parents and zonked out, irrational, memory depleted teens means cigarettes are actually way down the list of priorities.

Focus first on the real issue of illegal drugs then focus on cigarettes. Few people openly acknowledge the scourge of cannabis within Nz.

Weirdly my friends and I came up with this idea when we were all 16 year old smokers! Starting smoking was incredibly easy. But of all addictions it gives relatively little discernible reward for a lot of commitment (20 a day habit, expensive, hard to actually do anywhere these days). It’s not at all pleasant the first few times, this would really stop the breaking into it period be easy.

Worth a try.

It would be wonderful if we could snap our fingers and have people no longer smoking, abusing alcohol, or taking illegal drugs, or abusing prescription drugs, but the US tried it before with alcohol, and it didn't work. People still find a way to buy and use illegal drugs. If someone wants cigarettes, they'll get them, or maybe move on to something more dangerous, since it will all be illegal, anyway.

It won't be easy to enforce.