To think NZ’s plans to make it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 2004 are a bit draconian?

[CounsellorTroi]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettes

I’ve never smoked (well, had a drag of my friend’s fag at 15, didn’t like it so didn’t do it again) but I can’t help feeling that making it illegal to smoke anywhere other than in your own home would suffice.

@newtb

To the pp who said tobacco only harms its consumer - heard of the Roy Castle foundation - he died from lung cancer caused by passive smoking as do many others

You realise Roy castle worked in smokey clubs playing the trumpet night after night for years on end he didn't just occasionally walk past a smoker.

@CounsellorTroi

I doubt it because alcohol in moderation doesn’t kill you. There’s no such thing as smoking in moderation

Yes. Alcohol isn't harmful if you don't abuse it. Tobacco kills when used exactly as intended.

Unfortunately alcohol is abused by many people regularly. Victims of drunk drivers, families of alcoholics losing homes and dv and teens who end up having their stomachs pumped.

With current smoking laws, smokers only harm themselves.

@CounsellorTroi

I doubt it because alcohol in moderation doesn’t kill you. There’s no such thing as smoking in moderation

Yes. Alcohol isn't harmful if you don't abuse it. Tobacco kills when used exactly as intended.

Absolutely!

I think it sounds great. It's a disgusting habit that should be stopped.

Walked past a lady today and was forced to breath in her smoke its nasty.

If they banned the sell of cigarettes worldwide id be happy. Smoking is a smelly and expensive way to kill yourself.

**Unfortunately alcohol is abused by many people regularly.
Victims of drunk drivers, families of alcoholics losing homes and dv and teens who end up having their stomachs pumped.

With current smoking laws, smokers only harm themselves**

@Oneeyeopen

But alcohol doesn’t adversely affect the vast majority of people that stick to guidelines. It’s never going to be banned because a minority have problems with it.

You could say ban all unhealthy food because it would stop obesity but again, that’s never going to happen as why should the choice be taken away from those that eat healthy and enjoy attest in moderation?....

a treat in moderation

@Oneeyeopen

I’ve never smoked other than tried a pack as a teen. However if NZ or any country wants to ban smoking then they should ban alcohol too. Alcohol causes much more grief and misery to families than smoking does. They won’t though because they’re hypocrites like all governments. And yes I do drink wine.

Alcohol in moderation doesn't kill you, and in fact a small amount of some kinds may actually be good for you.

There are no health benefits to smoking, nor is there a "safe amount".

I've never been beaten up because my ex had too many cigarettes, though.

I’m really sensitive to second hand smoke. I hated taking my newborns home from hospital and having to take them through the utterly selfish people who seem to think smoking outside of the main entrance to a hospital ( despite the no smoking signs) is ok. I’d be quite keen to see it banned from outside dining areas. If someone wants to smoke I don’t see why they can’t go to a designated area away from tables.

I also think it’s brilliant. It’s the strain it puts on the health system too, as well as alcohol, drugs and obesity. All should be tackled.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

I've never been beaten up because my ex had too many cigarettes, though.

How awful for you, that sounds horrendous, but that’s completely irrelevant to the point of the thread.

You being in a relationship with someone that can’t handle their drink and gets aggressive, isn’t the problem to the rest of society though.

Terrible for you and anyone that gets involved with him, but that’s his problem and issues. Doesn’t mean alcohol should be banned.

Should say excessive alcohol use

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

I've never been beaten up because my ex had too many cigarettes, though.

That's horrendous and of course it's not okay.

I have alcoholics in my family and it's a really horrific illness and of course in excess it can cause damage, but none of that changes the fact that a glass of wine after dinner isn't damaging in the way cigarettes are.

@MaxNormal

Do people really think making something illegal will stop people doing it?

It will stop a lot of people. Not everyone in sure, but I doubt that a 16 year old who has never smoked would be bothered to seek out a black market of cigarettes.

Weed is illegal and yes some people still use it, but far fewer than smoke cigarettes.

People being forced to smoke in their own homes is unfair on people - especially kids - who live with them.

I’d have specific venues where smoking is allowed, make them the only places where cigarettes, cigars etc are sold & make it only possible to buy whatever you’re going to smoke there & then - nothing leaves the premises.

I know it won’t happen & there are probably plenty of reasons against it but it’s what I’d do.

As for tobacco companies trying to get children addicted in developing countries, they’re dodgy as all fuck & if anyone deserves to be publicly shamed, it’s their CEOs and boards of directors.

It will stop a lot of people. Not everyone in sure, but I doubt that a 16 year old who has never smoked would be bothered to seek out a black market of cigarettes.

They may not seek it out, but if they live with parents or older siblings who smoke, they'll try it. Just in the same way as teenagers drink and smoke weed.

It wouldn't bother me if cigarettes were banned outright but we all know this won't happen.
Alcohol ; I would miss my glass of wine on the weekend , but I can live without it.
If anything like this were to be banned completely, then they would start on food and all the fast food chains would disappear along with all the jobs and even more revenue. Then compulsory exercise for all? Where would it all stop ? It's a scary thought , but I know people who would love all this to become reality!!

Interesting, I wonder what proportion still smoke now and how they feel about it

Oh just looked at article so it’s gradual

I think it’s great overall.

How many teenagers are actually taking up smoking these days? I was a teen in the 80,s and it was everywhere ,one shop used to sell single cigarettes for ten pence to kids in school uniform,I don't see teens smoking so much nowadays ,vaping yes but not smoking .

There are no health benefits to smoking, nor is there a "safe amount"

That’s not entirely true. Nicotine has been identified as potentially having benefits for therapeutic use in Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s and ADHD. It’s a hard sell given the image issues but I think there’s a general recognition that in small doses nicotine isn’t actually harmful. It can be lethal in large quantities like many other substances of course.

Smoking, or inhaling anything other than air in large quantities generally is the issue. BBQ’s have been found to be pretty highly carcinogenic as has burnt food, red meats etc and it’s actually quite hard to unpick smoking related fatalities from other air pollutants given the rise in both on very similar timelines. That said, it’s quite obviously best not to deliberately directly inhale anything that is burning/highly heated so the shift against smoking can only be a good thing.

I do think there’s some cognitive dissonance going on when people try and say alcohol can be beneficial. There are very small benefits from ingesting alcohol which are achievable in other ways that don’t harm your body at all. Particularly in the UK our lifestyles and diets put a lot of strain on our heart, gut and liver so any tiny health benefit you might get from alcohol is quite quickly cancelled out by other factors. Age is one of the risk factors for fatty liver, especially in women, so it’s debatable whether any alcohol has a measurable health benefit.

Of course we enjoy alcohol so that’s a big factor in why it’s acceptable but I’m not convinced that we should be quite so keen to ignore the harm it can do because we don’t like hearing it.

@Cornettoninja

There are no health benefits to smoking, nor is there a "safe amount"

That’s not entirely true. Nicotine has been identified as potentially having benefits for therapeutic use in Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s and ADHD. It’s a hard sell given the image issues but I think there’s a general recognition that in small doses nicotine isn’t actually harmful. It can be lethal in large quantities like many other substances of course.

Smoking, or inhaling anything other than air in large quantities generally is the issue. BBQ’s have been found to be pretty highly carcinogenic as has burnt food, red meats etc and it’s actually quite hard to unpick smoking related fatalities from other air pollutants given the rise in both on very similar timelines. That said, it’s quite obviously best not to deliberately directly inhale anything that is burning/highly heated so the shift against smoking can only be a good thing.

I do think there’s some cognitive dissonance going on when people try and say alcohol can be beneficial. There are very small benefits from ingesting alcohol which are achievable in other ways that don’t harm your body at all. Particularly in the UK our lifestyles and diets put a lot of strain on our heart, gut and liver so any tiny health benefit you might get from alcohol is quite quickly cancelled out by other factors. Age is one of the risk factors for fatty liver, especially in women, so it’s debatable whether any alcohol has a measurable health benefit.

Of course we enjoy alcohol so that’s a big factor in why it’s acceptable but I’m not convinced that we should be quite so keen to ignore the harm it can do because we don’t like hearing it.

It’s the actual inhalation of the smoke and all the other chemicals that are released when you inhale the smoke from a lit cigarette.

Even if nicotine is beneficial to some degree, it certainly wouldn’t be advisable to continue smoking cigarettes as a means to get the nicotine

Every cigarette smoked will do harm and kill otherwise healthy cells so it’s not comparable to drinking say 3 glasses of red wine a week. Nothing to do with cognitive dissonance.

If you exceed the recommended allowance then it becomes counter productive but not if you stick to the guidelines. There’s nothing beneficial about smoking.

To add - even if nicotine was found to be a relaxant for arguments sake, in the form of a cigarette it would be counter productive as the negatives of the other chemicals would outweigh the positives of the nicotine- again, not a reason to view it as a positive.