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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think NZ’s plans to make it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 2004 are a bit draconian?

162 replies

CounsellorTroi · 02/05/2021 10:14

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettes

I’ve never smoked (well, had a drag of my friend’s fag at 15, didn’t like it so didn’t do it again) but I can’t help feeling that making it illegal to smoke anywhere other than in your own home would suffice.

OP posts:
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 02/05/2021 13:18

I think it’s a great idea and more should follow the example. Maybe then next, alcohol.

Yes some tax revenue would be lost but I’d imagine the offsetting to the lowering of nhs use would offset a lot of it.

x2boys · 02/05/2021 13:18

There are pleanty of shops that sell " cheap tobacco and cigarettes under the counter ,my local shop does and has done for the six years I have lived here , if they are not to bothered about selling illegal tobacco and cigarettes I doubt they are too bothered about age .

Daleksatemyshed · 02/05/2021 13:23

It's an interesting idea but can't see how it will work. Will there be a limit on how many you can buy so that you can't sell them on, will every shop insist on proof of age, won't older friends buy for those who are too young? Making anything illegal doesn't stop it or there would be no drug dealers

osbertthesyrianhamster · 02/05/2021 13:25

I'm so glad I don't live in that awful nanny state. It's amazing how many people love such authoritarian bollocks. They have a shocking drug problem but hey, let's make buying fags illegal.

Dugee · 02/05/2021 13:30

Yes some tax revenue would be lost but I’d imagine the offsetting to the lowering of nhs use would offset a lot of it.

You should look into this in more detail. The tax take in tobacco more than pays for smoking related health costs.

You also aren't taking in to account the fact that smokers often die younger so aren't entitled to a state pension for as long as non smokers and don't use the NHS for as long as non smokers. You do realise that the NHS and Social care costs would be huge if we all lived to 100?

Dugee · 02/05/2021 13:31

@osbertthesyrianhamster

I'm so glad I don't live in that awful nanny state. It's amazing how many people love such authoritarian bollocks. They have a shocking drug problem but hey, let's make buying fags illegal.
They have a huge DV and sexual assault problem too. Not to mention environmental problems and endemic poverty. Yet it's always held up as the epitome of a progressive country.
Thatisnotwhatisaid · 02/05/2021 13:32

Great idea, I’d like something like this to be implemented here too. Why do children ever need to start smoking?

Topseyt · 02/05/2021 13:32

As the child of two heavy smokers, I think this is a great idea. I'd love it to be brought in here. I'd even go further and say that it should be banned now for all ages.

Vapes could be available those wanting/needing the nicotine hit. They are far less offensive.

My father did give up his pipe in the last few years of his life but COPD had already set in and it killed him in March this year. ☹️ Something like 99% of cases of COPD are smoking related. Passive smoking is also a risk factor for it, I believe.

Having seen what he went through I would support this move. It was really shocking and traumatic.

My mother is also suspected of having COPD. Having had to spend several weeks looking after her while my Dad was in hospital I would be very surprised if she doesn't have it. She is a vulnerable person, very reduced mobility now to the extent of needing a wheelchair when out of the house. She also cannot stand and cook for herself. Still she insists on smoking her 40 cigarettes a day (at least, probably more). Pigs are more likely to fly than she is to stop smoking.☹️🙄 The only thing that might have any chance of stopping her, or at least getting her to use her vape, would be if it were made illegal to both buy cigarettes and to smoke.

I would feel much happier whenever I have to go to my mother's house if she simply couldn't smoke. It would be much pleasanter and healthier, and I wouldn't emerge stinking of cigarettes. At the moment I have no choice.

UsedUpUsername · 02/05/2021 13:35

@CounsellorTroi

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettes

I’ve never smoked (well, had a drag of my friend’s fag at 15, didn’t like it so didn’t do it again) but I can’t help feeling that making it illegal to smoke anywhere other than in your own home would suffice.

I don’t smoke but now I kind of want to ... so transgressive 😚
UsedUpUsername · 02/05/2021 13:36

@helpfulperson

I don't see how you could do this without also addressing the misery and injuries/deaths caused by alcohol.
But it’s the fun drug everyone wants to use!
TableFlowerss · 02/05/2021 13:39

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Alcohol will be mext, won't it
I doubt it because alcohol in moderation doesn’t kill you. There’s no such thing as smoking in moderation
the80sweregreat · 02/05/2021 13:40

In the UK , the government could easily make cigarettes and alcohol 100 pounds an item.
It would solve many social ills almost overnight but of course they wouldn't do this! The hospitality industry would collapse even further and the revenue lost on VAT alone would be huge.
Taxing ' bad ' foods might work a bit better. I know that it's often spoken about.
In Scotland they brought in minimum pricing for alcohol pre covid, has this made a difference to people not being alcohol dependent? Less sales , as it's not as cheap anymore?
Banning cigarettes would only make them as underground as drugs are , so nothing is foolproof. It's a complex subject and the government do rely on these hidden taxes to prop up economies.

newtb · 02/05/2021 13:44

To the pp who said tobacco only harms its consumer - heard of the Roy Castle foundation - he died from lung cancer caused by passive smoking as do many others

Dugee · 02/05/2021 13:46

In Scotland they brought in minimum pricing for alcohol pre covid, has this made a difference to people not being alcohol dependent? Less sales , as it's not as cheap anymore?

This is interesting, might see what stats I can find later.

the80sweregreat · 02/05/2021 13:47

I can remember Scotland bringing this minimum pricing in on alcohol, might have been in 2019 ? Not heard anymore since but then I don't live in Scotland.

WhateverJohnnyMcNofriends · 02/05/2021 13:48

History is littered with examples showing that prohibition doesn't work.

I can't see why this would be any different.

Arbadacarba · 02/05/2021 13:48

@newtb

To the pp who said tobacco only harms its consumer - heard of the Roy Castle foundation - he died from lung cancer caused by passive smoking as do many others
Roy Castle performed in smoke-filled entertainment venues - it's now illegal to smoke indoors in any public place. If you are worried about passive smoking, don't go into smokers' houses.
sunflowersandbuttercups · 02/05/2021 13:50

I love the idea behind it but I'm confused as to why people think it will stop young people smoking.

Prohibition didn't work.
Making drugs illegal didn't work.

Why would this be any different?

LowlandLucky · 02/05/2021 13:50

The cannabis users will never allow it to happen here

BuyYourOwnBBQGlenda · 02/05/2021 13:52

I doubt alcohol will be next in NZ its got a huge wine industry. I think it's a great idea.

safariboot · 02/05/2021 13:54

I see the forest for the trees.

This is the right move. But everything that's happened with smoking will repeat itself with vaping. That's not safe either. Who own most major vape brands? The same old offenders, the tobacco companies, gleefully carrying on peddling their addictive wares.

billy1966 · 02/05/2021 13:54

A fantastic idea.

Oneeyeopen · 02/05/2021 13:56

I’ve never smoked other than tried a pack as a teen.
However if NZ or any country wants to ban smoking then they should ban alcohol too.
Alcohol causes much more grief and misery to families than smoking does.
They won’t though because they’re hypocrites like all governments.
And yes I do drink wine.

CounsellorTroi · 02/05/2021 13:58

I doubt it because alcohol in moderation doesn’t kill you. There’s no such thing as smoking in moderation

Yes. Alcohol isn't harmful if you don't abuse it. Tobacco kills when used exactly as intended.

OP posts:
Bluebelltulip · 02/05/2021 14:01

Those saying smoking doesn't effect other people evidently don't know anyone who has asthma attacks triggered by simply walking past someone smoking.