To think NZ’s plans to make it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 2004 are a bit draconian?

[CounsellorTroi]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettes

I’ve never smoked (well, had a drag of my friend’s fag at 15, didn’t like it so didn’t do it again) but I can’t help feeling that making it illegal to smoke anywhere other than in your own home would suffice.

@Thethingswedoforlove

I guess it is more complicated than I realised. I guess maybe the risk is that if the whole developed world goes in this direction then the developing world will increasingly become a target. There must be something that could be done aboht that though surely by the governments of those countries legislating against it?

The developing world has been a target for years. The number of smokers has dropped significantly in the west.

Over 50% of the U.K. population smoked in the 1960s, it's now around 18%. Soldiers in WW2 got free cigarettes in their government provided kit. We didn't realise how bad it was until the 70s/80s.

Google Roy Castle. Then tell me that tobacco only harms the consumer.

Roy Castle was a very unusual case. It was undoubtedly the second hand smoke but it was connected to the huge breaths he took while playing the trumpet.

Walking past someone smoking outside will have no more effect than other pollutants.

(Don't smoke, don't drive 😇)

Cigs are extortionately expensive in Aus and NZ so I imagine they’ll lose a fair bit of tax. I suspect it will drive it underground like any other prohibition does - I’ve never been anywhere with such a (Particularly ‘party’) drug problem than NZ, but I imagine this will distract the voters from that issue.

It is the best idea. As said by previous posts, smoking affects other people, not just the ones who do it. It is a selfish habit and should be banned in public places altogether (not just indoor public spaces).

It's a brilliant idea

I’m a smoker and I’d be happy if they brought that law in here.

No, I think it's an excellent idea (although I hope they have plans to replace the tax revenue lost). I have no idea why anyone younger than I am smokes: it's stupidly expensive, makes you look 20 years older than you are, makes your breath stink and your teeth yellow. And that's without the health issues.

Roy castle worked in smokey nightclubs night after night playing the trumpet ,he didn't just occasionally walk past a smoker

Over 50% of the U.K. population smoked in the 1960s, it's now around 18%. Soldiers in WW2 got free cigarettes in their government provided kit. We didn't realise how bad it was until the 70s/80s

We knew a lot earlier than the 70s/80s - my grandfather died of gangrene caused by smoking in the mid 60s.

It won't stop people smoking though. They'll just get other people to buy them.

I think it's a great idea, sincerely hope they roll it out in the UK.

@Thethingswedoforlove

I think it’s brilliant. Over time there won’t be anyone left for whom it is legal to sell cigarettes to. The industry will die but slowly. No one has their liberties affected who already chooses to smoke. Lives will be saved. I think it is genius.

Yes. Because prohibition wiped out alcohol. And making the sale of heroin illegal has eradicated it from the planet.

If making something illegal stopped anyone from doing it, then Boris would be ecstatic at the success of his lockdowns.

People will do what they want to do, regardless of the law; and sometimes because of it. There is always an allure in doing something that you aren't supposed to.

It's a stupid idea, ill-conceived and barely thought through.

Smoking cuts appetite

Sure. My fat ass would be way fatter without smoking. 😂

I already buy all my cigarettes in certain European countries as it’s way cheaper and interestingly, that’s one of the things not affected by Brexit. You will still be allowed to bring in as many cigs as you want from elsewhere in Europe as long as they’re for your personal use and you paid tax in that country (which means you buy them in shops there rather than duty free). I go twice a year (in normal times) and buy 6 months supply each time. Saves me a fortune.

So they could bring in certain laws here but unless they apply across Europe, people will just buy them there and bring them over. Even if you made that illegal people will still take the chance and stick them in their suitcase, I would. Because it’s only relevant if you actually get caught and I rarely even see any officials at customs at the airport, let alone get stopped.

All that being said, smoking is pointless (as much as I enjoy it!). So I’ll be interested to see how it works out. Part of me thinks it is draconian but another part thinks it is better to make it harder for young people and phase it out over time.

With my mother's hat on, this would mean it would be illegal for 2 of my 3 children to buy cigarettes.

Although I am reasonably confident they wouldn't smoke, I would be bloody delighted if it were legislated. As an ex smoker I know how addictive it is.

Fantastic idea to break the cycle. Sure taxes will be lost, there will be some recovery of cost from a medical standpoint.

It’s not a good idea.
Tax-wise, between 80-90% of the cost of a packet of cigarettes is tax. Health wise, alcohol affects more people, with most admissions to A and E at night alcohol-related. If you want to ban alcohol, that would have more impact.
I don’t want things banned like this, haven’t we lost enough of our liberties? If you want to drink, eat meat, or fat and sugar, good for you. Don’t do it in my face, I don’t smoke around others, so do me the same courtesy.
Read a bit of background in the opposing view:
www.amazon.co.uk/Smoke-Screens-Truth-About-Tobacco/dp/1409246701?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Just wish they’d do the same with wood burners, which produce even more toxic smoke and affect the whole neighbourhood!

For reference - www.familiesforcleanair.org/health/health4/

Won't they just get the ones old enough to buy them for them ? It won't solve much.
People get around most laws!

I already buy all my cigarettes in certain European countries as it’s way cheaper and interestingly, that’s one of the things not affected by Brexit. You will still be allowed to bring in as many cigs as you want from elsewhere in Europe as long as they’re for your personal use and you paid tax in that country (which means you buy them in shops there rather than duty free). I go twice a year (in normal times) and buy 6 months supply each time. Saves me a fortune.

Norther Ireland, aren't you. Not the case for GB

Will be lots of opportunities for future smugglers. Lots of private sales.

I wonder what they will do in about 2090 when the oldies (dying off) no longer are earning extra money selling fags to youngsters.

Well, laws on their own don't really do much, it's all in how it's enforced and the wider social systems to support it. As the professor in the article says, it needs the right resources and people.

Personally, I'm far more interested in Portgual's model of decriminalisation alongside social policy and health care changes to help deal with addictions and the causes of it. It's not a miracle cure that some tout, but it shows a lot more promise than the prohibition methods that seems to treat making it illegal the hammer for the problems of society, many of which aren't really nails.

Let's do it fairly and VAT the shit out of heroin, coej and such.

Great idea

Smoking should not be allowed in public places.

As a pp said there's plenty of pollution for lungs to be exposed to without additional toxins on top.

Standing in queues for shops over the course of lockdowns has emphasised how much I hate breathing in second hand smoke and second hand vape.
Selfish people blowing fumes over others because 'they can'.

I hate getting lung fulls of second hand smoke whilst out and about and it makes me feel much worse when I'm out with my grandchildren.

Communal outhouses will prevent this happening in public places. Smokers and vapers can puff away to their heart's content. They can shut themselves in and choke on their own by products. Or just keep it in their own reeking houses.

I think it's a good idea to ban smoking - should be blanket ban in all public places.

I don't see how you could do this without also addressing the misery and injuries/deaths caused by alcohol.