To think NZ’s plans to make it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 2004 are a bit draconian?

[CounsellorTroi]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettes

I’ve never smoked (well, had a drag of my friend’s fag at 15, didn’t like it so didn’t do it again) but I can’t help feeling that making it illegal to smoke anywhere other than in your own home would suffice.

Nanny0gg, why? How does someone else smoking affect you?

Prohibition is a crap idea. It just puts the power and money into the hands of criminals.

After all, NZ can't handle the already illegal drug use in the country (albeit they have reduced the numbers of meth addicts - or they've died off) - why add to the workload by policing tobacco usage whilst simultaneously tolerating cannabis as a low harm thing?

I live in NZ and don't think it will make much difference to how things are currently.

Huge numbers of teenagers and younger people now vape. I think it's been a few years since I've seen anyone under the age of 35 or so smoke an actual cigarette. The government has only just started regulating vaping, whereas the taxes on cigarettes have been hiked to huge levels over the past few years.

I think taxing cigarettes heavily and allowing vaping to be available more cheaply has already had a big impact so I don't think banning cigarettes for younger people will make much difference now.

"Meritless addiction". Yes. Alcohol and drugs do at least have the bonus of being fun, for a while.

@Thethingswedoforlove

"I think it’s brilliant. Over time there won’t be anyone left for whom it is legal to sell cigarettes to. The industry will die but slowly"

They'll just flood the third world. Tobacco will be given out free, then sold cheaply, then the prices will go up and it will be another reason why crime goes up, women and girls are pimped out etc.

As said, prohibition didn't work, the illegal drug trade runs rife, when drugs and alcohol cause more issues, this is a slippery slope.

Now we have unarguable evidence that fat/sugar combined becomes addictive, how do we feel about food restrictions, especially for pregnant women, whose choices are affecting someone else?

We've seen how Covid rules have eroded civil liberties and the Police pick and choose who to bully with the law.

""Meritless addiction". Yes. "

Smoking cuts appetite, which is why it was so popular with French women and models. Some smokers would argue the calming effects are real. We might find that we end up with more fat people and it's split on MN who are worse, smokers or fat people.

@Mydogdoesntlisten

Why is everyone on here so keen to tell others what to do? As a pp said, where does it end? Sugary drinks? Fatty foods? Anything bad for us?

Because a smokers selfish choice affects me.

I don’t give a shiny shit that they’re cutting their own life expectancy and causing themselves health issues (although as a deliberate act the NHS shouldn’t be helping them for problems come from smoking) but I do care when it affects me.

Think NZ ought to get marijuana under control at the same time - lived there for over ten years - and lots and lots of dope very easy to get hold of if that's your thing.
But good for her for trying.

It's a bit rough to say that New Zealanders stopping smoking will worsen the sex trade in the Third World!

I guess it is more complicated than I realised. I guess maybe the risk is that if the whole developed world goes in this direction then the developing world will increasingly become a target. There must be something that could be done aboht that though surely by the governments of those countries legislating against it?

I hate smoking and have never smoked but I'm a bit uncomfortable with this. Where will it end?

It's a good idea. I think they should be illegal!

The developing world has been a target since smoking bans came in in the 1990’s.
This will have very little effect on companies bottom lines.

Indonesia children/teens have been targeted for decades with free cigarettes at concerts, smoking in films s as did TV, pushing of them being cool and a affordable luxury item etc so the same old as time marketing they used prior in the west.
Large young population with poorly enforced smoking laws equals a much much larger market than NZ was ever.
We are talking 70% of all men and 1 in 5 children between the ages of 18-13 in a population of around 57 million.

NZ is barely a water drop in the sea of sales.

emilyfrost, I asked Nanny0gg the same question. How does someone else smoking affect you? (I don't smoke btw, and now smoking inside is banned I can honestly say other people smoking doesn't affect me.)

@Mydogdoesntlisten

emilyfrost, I asked Nanny0gg the same question. How does someone else smoking affect you? (I don't smoke btw, and now smoking inside is banned I can honestly say other people smoking doesn't affect me.)

Have you heard of second-hand smoke?

@Arbadacarba

I don't know what NZ is like, but over here it's quite easy to buy tobacco 'under the counter'. I would imagine if it's banned for under-18s it may boost an illegal market. There's a thriving global market for illegal drugs and if tobacco is outlawed it will just be another one on the list.

I think generally tobacco is scapegoated. It only harms its consumer - no one beats their partner up because they've smoked too much or goes on a tobacco-fuelled bender. Are they going to ban fast food and sugary drinks as well? What about cars - RTAs account for a high number of deaths?

Google Roy Castle. Then tell me that tobacco only harms the consumer.

Of course smoking affects other people. You can't have a nice meal or drink outside a cafe or pub if others are smoking and it blows in your face. If your partner or parent smokes inside the house, you will have negative health effects from second hand smoke, especially for babies and small children. Smoking is very anti-social for both of these reasons.

However, I feel uneasy about this for several reasons and don't think it'll work either.

I think it's a good idea. Generally speaking even nowadays smoking in public is quite frowned upon so attitudes are shifting. That is all to say that of course anyone who wants to get their hands on some cigarettes won't be stopped by this law - much like drugs, but it is a good step in eradicating smoking altogether. Smoking is such an expensive useless unhealthy habit - and I say that as someone who does occasionally smoke.

I think it’s a great idea and we should do it.

Fair enough, I agree smoking in the house when you have children or a partner who doesn't isn't great.
But sitting outside a cafe and having smoke blowing in your face? I guess it can happen, but seriously, how often? As I said, I don't smoke, and haven't had all of these problems. Maybe I've just been weirdly lucky.
As a general principle though, I don't want to tell others how to live their lives. That would be very arrogant, I think.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Imagine the tax hole if this was done in the UK. What are income taxes in NZ like?

I came along to post something like this. I quit 15 years ago but was behind someone buying cigs the other day and noticed they were around £12 - most of which is tax. I think cost price is about £2 per pack.

I don’t give a shiny shit that they’re cutting their own life expectancy and causing themselves health issues (although as a deliberate act the NHS shouldn’t be helping them for problems come from smoking) but I do care when it affects me.

How do you propose to pay for the NHS if you ban smoking? Look at the tax take on tobacco.

What else do you class as a deliberate act that doesn't merit NHS support? Attempted suicide? Sporting injuries? Car crashes?

@Mydogdoesntlisten

emilyfrost, I asked Nanny0gg the same question. How does someone else smoking affect you? (I don't smoke btw, and now smoking inside is banned I can honestly say other people smoking doesn't affect me.)

Second and third hand smoke is dangerous, especially to children. It’s invisible and odourless so you don’t realise you’re being affected by the poisonous substances within.

It happens all the time because smokers and selfish and think because they’re outside it’s fine. It’s not.

Fantastic idea!

@Rangoon

It's a bit rough to say that New Zealanders stopping smoking will worsen the sex trade in the Third World!

Not on here it isn't