To wonder what it is about “no overnight stays till 17 May” that is so hard to understand?

[HaveringWavering]

So many colleagues and acquaintances merrily talking today about plans to go and stay with relatives for the bank holiday. Nobody has any shame. We’re waiting till the 17th. Does nobody care any more?

I can’t get worked up what other people are doing any more .
Do what you do op ,
I went to a relatives yesterday outside , 5 out of 6 of us have had 2 vaccines but still we stayed outside.
If people want to go indoors then that’s up to then. If it was earlier this year then fair enough but now the majority have had a vaccine now we have to start mixing .
Some people may never want to but that’s up to you let others live .

@Quaagars

I haven't read all the comments. I do know that I'm still sticking to it, but it's blatantly clear that others are starting to not give a shit to. I mean, my nearly 18 year old has started up playing football again, completely allowed, within the rules, but are starting to go back to others houses afterwards and gather indoors. YOU'RE STILL NOT FUCKING SUPPOSED TO! Sorry for shouting, but pisses me off when I'm sticking to it. not going over to my Mum and Dad's for example as don't want to be indoors before we're officially allowed to, but others are like "meh, you can all come in!"

I know, people looking at the data and using their common sense really sucks doesn't it?

Scientists are just like everyone else: they don’t like to be wrong. And when offered this evidence I am afraid they fall back on, as a SAGE interviewee did this morning on the Today programme (sorry, I didn’t catch his name), it wouldn’t be “fair” to release vaccinated people early when younger folks still had to be more careful (even though they for the most part are not significantly at risk from the virus).

Yet only a few days ago there was a thread on here complaining about older/vaccinated people making plans to go on holiday when younger/unvaccinated people would be unable to. And that everyone should wait until everyone was able to book holidays as otherwise it was "unfair".

people looking at the data and using their common sense really sucks doesn't it?

Actually, it does. Because most people who look at data without training and use common sense will get it wrong.
Common sense doesn't detect the beginning of an exponential curve and usually gets probabilities and risk wrong. Don't even get me started on causality.

@Letsgetreadytocrumble a few posters throughout the thread have implied we're not clever enough to make our own decisions based on available data. We still have to be told what to do (and what to think) by our betters.

While I don't like blanket rules and would say that quite a few people are clever enough to make good decisions, I've seen very poor decision making even by intelligent and even people with some training.

Does anyone go sky jumping and think they're clever enough to decide if their parachute is folded properly?

After being with a group of Biomedical students who should know better and are all very clever, I saw how easily they forgot safety precautions and had to be reminded. That wasn't in a private or social setting.

I'm due to see ds tomorrow. I haven't seen him for 5 months. We were planning picnic in a park (he is in a flat with no outside space) but weather looks shit.

So, do we make a 4 hour round trip just to stand outside under umbrellas or do we go into his flat?

And before anyone says "put it off until next weekend", we haven't got a free day until June.

Up until very recently I was sticking to all the rules but now I'm taking calculated risks because I refuse to live like this for much longer.

@EmmaGrundyForPM
My advice is to ensure ventilation indoors and wear masks inside if distancing is not possible.
Unless all of you have been fully vaccinated.

@Lweji

people looking at the data and using their common sense really sucks doesn't it?

Actually, it does. Because most people who look at data without training and use common sense will get it wrong.
Common sense doesn't detect the beginning of an exponential curve and usually gets probabilities and risk wrong. Don't even get me started on causality.

We are clearly not at the beginning of an exponential curve here, the numbers of infections, deaths and hospitalisations have been incredibly low over the last few days, it probably couldn't be much safer right now.

And its not like we are talking about people going to unauthorised raves etc, we are talking about people going to stay over at their parents house and similar. People don't want to wait another couple of weeks, when the numbers couldn't really actually get much lower because they would be at zero, to do something that they can do right now with pretty much the same level of risk.

I don’t blame people.
I have not seen my parent since July last year as we live 300 miles away but am not going until end May due to school assessments etc and also my parent (not me) is worried about breaking the rules which makes me sad. We used to see each other and stay for few days every 8 weeks. I have missed so much time over last 17 months Christmas 19 -May 21 we will not get back when parent is in 80’s.
If they were happy for me to go now I would be there in a flash, this is too long to keep families apart and I feel so upset about it.

The date of 17th May was decided quite a long time ago, when experts still didn't know for sure the effects of the vaccine, the lockdown etc. They couldn't see into the future and know what the exact data would be in 16th May to know that it would be 'safe' on 17th.

It's a rough date, nothing is going change from 16th to the 17th May.

We are clearly not at the beginning of an exponential curve here

I'm not saying you are. I'm saying that people rarely have enough training to recognise a curve trend. In this case whether the numbers are stable or not.
Most people probably wouldn't be able to say what's the current R or what it means.

OP I honestly think that many people (potentially 63% of your voters) no longer trust the government. The same government who took so long to respond to the initial threat in early 2020 (when we were all watching Italy) of what was coming down the trail...
When trust is broken these unenforceable laws that you are so fixed on become easier to justify breaking.

@MumofPsuedoAdult

OP I honestly think that many people (potentially 63% of your voters) no longer trust the government. The same government who took so long to respond to the initial threat in early 2020 (when we were all watching Italy) of what was coming down the trail... When trust is broken these unenforceable laws that you are so fixed on become easier to justify breaking.

And I know we aren't supposed to mention this on MN but not firing Dominic Cummings meant that a lot of people adopted the 'if it's ok for them, it's ok for me' approach to the rules without considering the consequences of their actions. I know many of us continued to follow the rules realising that Cummings was an idiot who got away likely but too many people saw it as a green light.

Pretty sure the 17th is so it was after when Eid falls this year.

I'm in Manchester and we haven't even been able to have people in our garden since June last year so not surprised people are fed up.

Can you honestly say you haven't broken any of the rules op. I have so we could go to my Grandma's funeral and would do again.

I haven't seen my dad since June last year because we live too far away not to stay over. Haven't arranged to see him yet was skeptical about restrictions being lifted.

To the person says the NHS has done nothing this year thanks for that me and my colleagues have worked hard this year under social distancing restrictions and shortages of consumables due to covid and brexit to offer our normal service.

I'm in Manchester and we haven't even been able to have people in our garden since June last year so not surprised people are fed up.

You have been able to have people in your garden since April 12th this year - I'm sure you know that but your post doesn't sound that way.

It would all be over tomorrow if everyone stopped participating in the narrative. Is there a law that says you have to watch tv, read newspapers? If you stopped doing these things you wouldn’t have a clue that anything was going on. Because it is a totally manufactured media manipulated situation.

If you stopped doing these things you wouldn’t have a clue that anything was going on.

Ah yes, because I've been managing an overfull makeshift ICU for the last 15 months for the laughs.

@Lweji

While I don't like blanket rules and would say that quite a few people are clever enough to make good decisions, I've seen very poor decision making even by intelligent and even people with some training.

Does anyone go sky jumping and think they're clever enough to decide if their parachute is folded properly?

After being with a group of Biomedical students who should know better and are all very clever, I saw how easily they forgot safety precautions and had to be reminded. That wasn't in a private or social setting.

I agree. I don't understand this idea that some people all of a sudden think they're statisticians and can analyse the data to come up with their own scientific predictions and risk assessments. Would they do that with other rules/laws? Not quite the same I know but it reminds me of people I know who have come up with their own calculation of how much alcohol they think they can drink before being over the limit based on their height/weight and how long they think it takes their system to process it...

Also, I really resent how people who choose to bend the rules accuse others who don't of being "blind rule followers" or "sheep" etc. I have been sticking to the guidance purely because if that's what might get us out of this shitstorm then I'm willing to do it. Not because I can't think for myself.

@TheKeatingFive

I doubt anyone would want help from the type of person ‘keeping note’ of those hugging their parents so I think you’re safe enough.

😂😂 nail on head 🤣

What do you think is going to be different on the 17th to the 16th?

The law?