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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder what it is about “no overnight stays till 17 May” that is so hard to understand?

821 replies

HaveringWavering · 29/04/2021 16:22

So many colleagues and acquaintances merrily talking today about plans to go and stay with relatives for the bank holiday. Nobody has any shame. We’re waiting till the 17th. Does nobody care any more?

OP posts:
FortniteBoysMum · 30/04/2021 18:15

How do you know they are not in a bubble for a start? Personally mind if some are breaking rules good on them I'm my area. Only 3 positive cases in our area in the last week. With that figure personally we should be back to normal life.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 30/04/2021 18:15

@EducatingArti

twitter.com/SalfordCCG/status/1388157554165960706?s=19

So our local health authority tweeted this today. I really don't think they have any skin in the game except keeping Covid rates low. If too many people meet indoors too soon we do run the risk of a Covid uptick which could become serious. We really do need to wait.

You're free to wait. Covid is going nowhere. It's here to stay.
purplebunny2012 · 30/04/2021 18:25

I'm finally getting jabbed on Sunday, and I'm not staying with my parents until half term, or anywhere else. The longer we wait, the more people will have been fully vaccinated, so I don't see date given as arbitrary

Temp023 · 30/04/2021 18:28

There are 5 weeks between each of the English easing dates, this is the minimum time to allow sensible number crunching and confirm that it is safe to move to the next stage.

DrSbaitso · 30/04/2021 18:28

I don't think it's as simple as everyone who follows rules doing so because they are rationally and unselfishly following the science while those who don't are selfishly following their own wants.

Of course not everyone. But I could say exactly the same thing about the people banging on about Milgram and Hitler Youth because they think it makes a better case than the truth, which is that they hate the restrictions (we all do) and don't want to bother any more. Which I can respect more than a ham fisted attempt to make themselves out to be noble critical thinkers defying evil authority.

I think people use extreme examples like the Milgram experiment partly as a reaction to the minimisation of the effect of lockdown which you see from some quarters (and I'm not accusing you of this).

You have a much more charitable view than I have of the motivation. I don't think many people are unaware of how shit and devastating lockdown has been, on account of the fact we have all been living under it, more or less, for over a year. My mental health suffered like everyone else's, but now we are on the home straight, I can handle a couple more weeks and if it turns out I didn't need to, well, it's a red light on a still road at 3am.

Even if the motivation for these bad comparisons is to try to express how awful it has been for those who suffered particularly badly, that doesn't stop it from being an absolutely terrible argument that doesn't help the case at all. Actively hurting another person, potentially to the point of death, because a man in a white coat says it's ok is about 10000 miles away from adhering to social restrictions because of a pandemic, the evidence of which we see all around us, not least from front line doctors and nurses. It's not the same as joining a fascist youth movement either; lockdown kept us apart rather than encouraging us to join movements!

As much as anything else, I dislike the deflection of what Milgram/Hitler Youth SHOULD be teaching us. They're not rent-a-rhetorics for everything one doesn't like. I could just as easily say that by breaking the law, people are causing harm like the average Milgram subject. I'm not, but as far as daft rhetoric goes, it works both ways.

At the very least, even if others are harmed more from lockdown than Covid, those of us who are choosing to keep the rules aren't causing that harm to them just by waiting for official restrictions to lift. We're just not staying overnight yet. We're really not hurting anyone. We're not taking it upon ourselves to strong arm anyone else.

There seems to be an assumption/implication among some people that adhering to the rules means lying in wait to grass up anyone you suspect of a minor infraction. It doesn't.

Once more, I'm sympathetic to all the arguments people have made. I'm not curtain twitching, I'm not reporting, I'm not cats bum mouthing. But I can't accept direct comparisons to Milgram and Naziism.

XenoBitch · 30/04/2021 18:28

[quote Chessie678]@motherloaded

I think we disagree on the extremity of the issues caused by lockdown for many people. And I don't think someone's issues stop being "genuine" just because it is possible to imagine someone in a worse situation.

For the first couple of months of the first lockdown it was illegal for single people to see anyone at all. Support bubbles were then introduced but are only useful if you live near someone who is willing to bubble with you on an exclusive basis and even then it is hard to fulfil all your social needs from meeting with one other household. Most people find isolation very difficult - it is one of the most extreme punishments used in our criminal justice system.

To use myself as an example, I had a baby in the first week of lockdown. I was not legally allowed family support, my husband couldn't offer much support for various reasons and I had essentially nothing from the NHS. I found that really difficult - I think it was a genuine issue which caused me real hardship and put my mental health at risk and prevented my baby having the best start in life. I am aware than many people were much more adversely affected by lockdown than I was. And of course, in comparison to a woman having a child in a refugee camp or someone who has lost a child or any number of other situations which people face all over the world my experience is insignificant but it wasn't some trivial thing which I should just have been more resilient about either.

If someone had posted in pre-covid times to say that they lived in a country where it was illegal to see friends or family; schools, shops, cafes, leisure activities had been closed down and people weren't allowed to get close to each other, I think the consensus would be that it was an extreme regime and very hard on the people living there. Lockdowns have become almost normal but it doesn't make them any less damaging for a significant number of people.

I don't think human rights abuse is hyperbole. There have been plenty of human rights cases won for less serious restrictions on freedom than currently apply to the whole population.[/quote]
This x 1000

Unless you were living alone, it as hard to imagine how difficult lockdown was for a lot of people. I live alone, and my family are 45 miles away. The first proper human interaction I had was a security guard in my local shop telling me that my wine was not essential.
I was done in with people suggesting Zoom as an alternative... not everyone is happy to videocall... hell, not everyone has the internet to enable that.
Local FB groups were awful for stuff like tell tatting on some elderly gent that went into a shop just for a paper, or a stressed lady only buying chocolate/wine. Or their neighbour went out twice in one day.
I could not cope.... I ended up attempting to take my own life during that first lockdown.

Lucyk1 · 30/04/2021 18:33

So it's not safe on the 16th May to stay with anyone but the 17th may is absolutely fine? No logic there. Many people have now been vaccinated and can now meet up safely with relatives.

It's more of a worry that you follow a law which is set without even considering if its justifiable.
Look at other countries and their laws. Was it really OK to say woman can't drive? Or that woman can't work or get an education or leave their country?
Have to have a bit of common sense and see what control is.

ilovesooty · 30/04/2021 18:36

I live alone and have no family anywhere near me either. Support bubbles not allowed for the first few months. I managed OK but certainly didn't enjoy it. People vary in how it affected them. What is unpleasant but manageable for one person can be unbearable for another.

HalzTangz · 30/04/2021 18:42

@HaveringWavering

So many colleagues and acquaintances merrily talking today about plans to go and stay with relatives for the bank holiday. Nobody has any shame. We’re waiting till the 17th. Does nobody care any more?
My Stance on this, don't worry or concern yourself of what or why others do things. Just focus on what you do
HalzTangz · 30/04/2021 18:44

@HaveringWavering

About following the rules yourself or about what others do?
When you can sit in an office for 9 hours day in day out, but can spend 9 hours inside with family member.

If it's safe to be a work its safe to be in a house.
All the rules have been backwards from day 1

YorkiePanda · 30/04/2021 18:46

@XenoBitch how awful that things got that bad for you. I’m sorry to hear you had such a tough time in the first lockdown. I hope you’ve been able to do what you need to do to stay mentally ok since, rules or no rules x

Bleachmycloths · 30/04/2021 18:48

No, they don’t care. And neither do I 😄

XenoBitch · 30/04/2021 18:52

[quote YorkiePanda]@XenoBitch how awful that things got that bad for you. I’m sorry to hear you had such a tough time in the first lockdown. I hope you’ve been able to do what you need to do to stay mentally ok since, rules or no rules x[/quote]
Thank you @YorkiePanda

It was very tough.. I was always told not to isolate myself when struggling... yet doing just that was the law. All my usual coping mechanism taken away, or made illegal.
I saw my mum when it was allowed (although meeting her in the park might have been ok, the distance she had to travel was not.. and of course your usual suspects would have a lot to say about that too).
The recent lockdown, I broke the rules and had a local friend see me in my house once every 2 weeks. It has kept me safe. There is no way I would begrudge anyone doing the same.

YorkiePanda · 30/04/2021 18:55

The recent lockdown, I broke the rules and had a local friend see me in my house once every 2 weeks. It has kept me safe. There is no way I would begrudge anyone doing the same

I certainly wouldn’t either @XenoBitch and was recommending to patients who were struggling that they do just that - risk assessment means more than just assessing the risk of Covid.

Toddlerteaplease · 30/04/2021 19:00

I don't have any plans. But I've had Covid, am fully vaccinated and lateral flow test 2x weekly. I don't care any more either.

hookiewookie29 · 30/04/2021 19:01

OP, up until a couple of weeks ago, U absolutely agreed with you.
But people are struggling mentally si much more thus time around. Up until last weekend, I hadn't seen my son for 7 months. I missed him. I worried about him. I cried. His Christmas presents were still here for him. He left home last June and moved in with his boyfriend, but not only were they living together for the first time, they were working from home together too. I worried that their relationship would suffer because of it. I was desperate to see him and know that he was ok.
He isolated for 2 weeks and took Covid-19 tests before he came back - was probably a lot safer than standing in a queue in Asda.
And he was fine, and happy and loving his boyfriend. He went home feeling better, and my mental health improved immediately. I'm fully vaccinated and so is my husband so the danger was minimal. People just want normality now.

grapewine · 30/04/2021 19:06

@VegCheeseandCrackers

Because covid won't magically disappear on the 17th!
This. It won't disappear and we still have to live.
Snoozer11 · 30/04/2021 20:03

All those posters saying we have to wait - how long do you want us to wait for?

JVT has already said that he doesn't expect the number of cases to decrease much more.

There won't be a puff of smoke just after midnight on the 16th May.

People are starting to mingle more, but that doesn't mean they're going back to normal.

For those saying we'll have to be vigilant for another year.. what happens after the year is up? Covid will still be here.

I'm not a covid denier, or a downplayer. I simply recognise that we're in the best position we've been in since February 2020 and it's not going to change significantly from this point on.

lettuce1 · 30/04/2021 20:08

Personally I don't feel that I am a scientist so i will continue to go with the rules. I want covid to be under control as soon as possible so I will go with the experts.

Takingshape12 · 30/04/2021 20:09

@Mumof5x

So you judge people saying over night with friends or family on the 16th but will he happy to do so yourself on the 17th. Does the clock turn midnight and suddenly magic the risk away? I assume grown up people that have been barely living for over a year are making judgment calls and deciding for themselves what is safe and what isn't. Surely this post is a wind up. If not I'm worried for you!
Umm, it's the law! Stay overnight before the 17th and you're breaking the law.
Takingshape12 · 30/04/2021 20:12

@lettuce1

Personally I don't feel that I am a scientist so i will continue to go with the rules. I want covid to be under control as soon as possible so I will go with the experts.
Hear hear
Vinomummyinlockdown · 30/04/2021 20:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Spinningaround21 · 30/04/2021 20:29

@Vinomummyinlockdown

Do you vaccinated experimental guinea pigs know that you can still get covid and spread it???? Maybe do some research. The ignorance is amazing. PS you’re the experiment. The vax isn’t fully tested yet.
You do know real world data is actually proving they all reduce transmission?

You only have to see how cases have dropped in the community and in age groups as each age group was vaccinated. I also saw it real time happen in work, the ages of patients dropped along with the amount of inpatients admitted. Which now is barely any. But no vaccines don’t work ok.

DenisetheMenace · 30/04/2021 20:32

Today 20:17 Vinomummyinlockdown

Do you vaccinated experimental guinea pigs know that you can still get covid and spread it???? Maybe do some research. The ignorance is amazing. PS you’re the experiment. The vax isn’t fully tested yet.“

Oh my, you are funny 🤣

Abraxan · 30/04/2021 20:32

@Vinomummyinlockdown

Do you vaccinated experimental guinea pigs know that you can still get covid and spread it???? Maybe do some research. The ignorance is amazing. PS you’re the experiment. The vax isn’t fully tested yet.
Of course you can still possibly catch, and therefore transmit, the virus following vaccination. No vaccine has ever been 100% effective. It's never going to happen.

However all of the findings show that the risk of catching covid following one vaccine is greatly reduced. This increases with the second vaccine.

If you are unfortunate enough to catch covid following vaccination the likelihood of having a serious illness and needing hospital treatment is significantly reduced. Some findings have shown this to be minimal risk, with no cases happening following so many months after vaccine iirr.

Again, if unfortunate enough to catch covid following vaccination, then your chances of transmitting is more than halved even after just one vaccine. This increases again after both vaccines. Remember that as your chances of catching covid itself is already reduced after vaccination, then the risk of transmissions is again very low.

The vaccine has not missed any parts of the normal vaccination trial. It was speeded up due to a world wide focus on the vaccine and it hasn't been delayed by money and time constraints, which is what causes slow downs in other vaccination trials. Whilst long term findings are ongoing this is often the case with other vaccines too. Some things can only be determined once it's in full use.

So yes, you can still catch and transmit covid following the vaccine. However this is normal for all pretty much all vaccines we have. And the actual risks of both is very low, far lower than if unvaccinated.

Having had covid in October and needing hospital treatment, a lengthy period of time off work and ongoing issues six months later I know that I would b]much rather be vaccinated to reduce my chances of experiencing it again.