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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder what it is about “no overnight stays till 17 May” that is so hard to understand?

821 replies

HaveringWavering · 29/04/2021 16:22

So many colleagues and acquaintances merrily talking today about plans to go and stay with relatives for the bank holiday. Nobody has any shame. We’re waiting till the 17th. Does nobody care any more?

OP posts:
osbertthesyrianhamster · 30/04/2021 13:47

Oh, I missed out 'jolly'. I love going on jollies.

TheOneWithTheBigNose · 30/04/2021 13:48

good grief, how do people manage when faced with genuine issues?

I’ve had plenty of ‘genuine issues’, thank you.
Do you live alone?

TheKeatingFive · 30/04/2021 13:51

good grief, how do people manage when faced with genuine issues?

This kind of minimising of the widespread effects of lockdown has done a lot to lower compliance imo.

motherloaded · 30/04/2021 13:55

I think the worst effects of the lockdown is for people who decided to invent stricter rules and guidelines than we already had and to make their life as painful as they possibly can!

It's frightening actually.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 30/04/2021 13:58

@motherloaded

I think the worst effects of the lockdown is for people who decided to invent stricter rules and guidelines than we already had and to make their life as painful as they possibly can!

It's frightening actually.

Oh, yeah, the made up one-hour of exercise only, 'non essential' chocolate bars, 'this isn't a real lockdown' (Australia, NZ, S. Africa, China blah blah blah), deadly park benches. Batshit!
tinytemper66 · 30/04/2021 14:08

To be honest, I am more wary this weekend as 1] Wales is opening up outide and it is the first weekend and it is a Bank Holiday and 2] we have had 2 positive cases in school this week. I will be keeping my mask on til the bitter end I think.
We went away last weekend to see my son who is delpoying for 9 moths but stayed in a self contained air BnB. We went to the local pub and sat outside but sanitised and signed in etc.
I am not going anywhere this weekend as it will be busy everywhere near me. I am looking forward to a trip to London at half term - if things open up indoors- and see my family who live there, carefully.
Part of me is excited to be 'living' again and the other bit is nervous as it is is close to home again, as it were.

tinytemper66 · 30/04/2021 14:09

@tinytemper66

To be honest, I am more wary this weekend as 1] Wales is opening up outide and it is the first weekend and it is a Bank Holiday and 2] we have had 2 positive cases in school this week. I will be keeping my mask on til the bitter end I think. We went away last weekend to see my son who is delpoying for 9 moths but stayed in a self contained air BnB. We went to the local pub and sat outside but sanitised and signed in etc. I am not going anywhere this weekend as it will be busy everywhere near me. I am looking forward to a trip to London at half term - if things open up indoors- and see my family who live there, carefully. Part of me is excited to be 'living' again and the other bit is nervous as it is is close to home again, as it were.
Months!
JustDanceAddict · 30/04/2021 14:18

@motherloaded

I think the worst effects of the lockdown is for people who decided to invent stricter rules and guidelines than we already had and to make their life as painful as they possibly can!

It's frightening actually.

Totally agree with this. I know at least two people who wont travel on public transport yet. Wtf? Wear your mask and keep away from those who aren’t. I have pretty much stuck to the rules, not 100% as am not a saint, but pretty near damnit and most of my friends have too. Now numbers are low in the area and tend DS is testing twice a week I’m not too fussed if he sees friends inside as they’re all getting their lateral flows and no school cases yet this term. As for 17 May being arbitrary, it’s enough time to see the affect of the last restrictions being lifted. The govt know some are still taking is seriously and others aren’t, some are vaccinated etc so I expect they’ll take all this into account in the next week or so and announce we can meet 6 inside etc on 17 May (no doubt we’ll then get a heatwave!).
Chessie678 · 30/04/2021 14:37

@motherloaded

I think we disagree on the extremity of the issues caused by lockdown for many people. And I don't think someone's issues stop being "genuine" just because it is possible to imagine someone in a worse situation.

For the first couple of months of the first lockdown it was illegal for single people to see anyone at all. Support bubbles were then introduced but are only useful if you live near someone who is willing to bubble with you on an exclusive basis and even then it is hard to fulfil all your social needs from meeting with one other household. Most people find isolation very difficult - it is one of the most extreme punishments used in our criminal justice system.

To use myself as an example, I had a baby in the first week of lockdown. I was not legally allowed family support, my husband couldn't offer much support for various reasons and I had essentially nothing from the NHS. I found that really difficult - I think it was a genuine issue which caused me real hardship and put my mental health at risk and prevented my baby having the best start in life. I am aware than many people were much more adversely affected by lockdown than I was. And of course, in comparison to a woman having a child in a refugee camp or someone who has lost a child or any number of other situations which people face all over the world my experience is insignificant but it wasn't some trivial thing which I should just have been more resilient about either.

If someone had posted in pre-covid times to say that they lived in a country where it was illegal to see friends or family; schools, shops, cafes, leisure activities had been closed down and people weren't allowed to get close to each other, I think the consensus would be that it was an extreme regime and very hard on the people living there. Lockdowns have become almost normal but it doesn't make them any less damaging for a significant number of people.

I don't think human rights abuse is hyperbole. There have been plenty of human rights cases won for less serious restrictions on freedom than currently apply to the whole population.

Coconut2010 · 30/04/2021 14:49

No, don’t care and I would do exactly the same if I could but sadly my second home is abroad (but plan to go for half term even if travel is not allowed thanks to my other passport).

poppycat10 · 30/04/2021 14:51

There were (legal and accepted) ways for people alone NOT to be completely alone for months anyway

not during the first lockdown - eg no support bubbles and you couldn't meet up with one person for exercise until late May. In the November and 2021 lockdowns it wasn't so bad (and had I had a partner elsewhere in the country I would have gone to see him, roolz or no roolz).

Chessie678 · 30/04/2021 15:04

@DrSbaitso

I think drawing on things like Hitler Youth and the Milgram experiment for this is really just a way for people to justify their decisions, which they are making for their own benefit, as critical free thinking in the face of oppressive authority. I think that's self-aggrandising bollocks. I've got more respect for the posters who are just owning the fact that they're sick of it to the point of no longer giving a fuck.

There's probably something in this - people are definitely prone to form an opinion based on their desires, personality, experience etc. and then fit a justification onto it. I can't know if I am doing that because my opinion feels justified by evidence to me but then it would do. But it must cut both ways. A lot of people follow lockdown rules because they tend to follow rules or they are scared themselves either of covid or being caught not following rules or social pressure and then they accept the justification put forward for the rules to back up their stance. In doing so they can paint themselves as unselfishly "saving lives" which is a more attractive reason not to see your family for a year than worry over getting a fine. Of course, some people will form an evidence based opinion which will happen to coincide with the rules but I don't think it's as simple as everyone who follows rules doing so because they are rationally and unselfishly following the science while those who don't are selfishly following their own wants.

I think people use extreme examples like the Milgram experiment partly as a reaction to the minimisation of the effect of lockdown which you see from some quarters (and I'm not accusing you of this). There have been so many - how hard is it just to sit and watch Netflix, selfish people want to kill people just so they can go to the pub - that people want to explain that for them or people they know lockdown has been much more difficult than that. And the people who have been really badly affected don't necessarily fit neatly into categories of people who were already vulnerable.

Everyone has an idea of how much harm it is reasonable for a government to inflict on one person to protect others and for me the rules about not seeing family went way past that.

ChloeCrocodile · 30/04/2021 15:54

eg no support bubbles and you couldn't meet up with one person for exercise until late May.

Loads of people forget this. I really tried to stick to the rules - wfh and shopping only as necessary - which meant I went days at a time without speaking face to face with another human being.

Snoozer11 · 30/04/2021 16:03

I know a man in his 30s who literally wouldn't leave his house more than once a day during the first lockdown. If he'd been to the supermarket or for a run on the morning, he literally wouldn't allow himself to go outside again until the next day as it was "against the rules".

He's never bent any rule before in his life and to be honest he's a nightmare. He's like a child.

I think it's pathetic both ways - those who've been having big gatherings indoors and those at the opposite end who decry people who dared to walk the dog. Totally opposite attitudes but they're both shit.

tigger1001 · 30/04/2021 16:35

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I don’t think people don’t understand the rules, never have done as it’s been clearly set out at all points. Some just think they don’t apply to them as their wants come first.
Couldn't disagree more.

To me, the rules haven't made any sense and have certainly not been clear. That much is clear when police officers, the ones who's job it is to uphold the law, get it wrong. People have had their covid fines revoked as they shouldn't have got them in the first place.

The rules have been very confusing. I'm in Scotland and in December when the restrictions were tightened I was allowed, within the rules, to travel to another council area, as it was for work. But while there it wasn't allowed for me to go into a shop, as the shops were not in my local authority area. So to keep within the rules I was supposed to drive past 3 supermarkets and add another 20 miles to my journey. Yeah, don't think so!

Knew someone who worked in a golf club, which was allowed in the rules to remain open. But as they lived in a different local authority area they were not allowed to hand a round of golf after work even though it was with people that they had been with all day.

My eldest was allowed back to training, non contact in March, with 15 kids but not allowed to play football at the park with more than 3. Now can play full contact matches, but can only play with another 5 down the park.

The rules have changed so often, I no longer have any clue as to what is allowed or not.

What I do see, more and more, is the affects on people's mental well-being. It's devastating.

HaveringWavering · 30/04/2021 17:02

@DrSbaitso

The point about the electric shock experiment is presumably just that some people will follow rules however damaging they are because most people naturally defer to authority.

I understand the point, thank you. And while I read your post in full, I strongly disagree that actively inflicting increasing pain on another human until possible death is comparable to adhering to social restrictions in a pandemic. It isn't just the authority that is driving people to do that; it's the evidence all around them, the knowledge of a pandemic, and the very obvious reasons for not mixing freely while it's ongoing. My NHS friends on the front line give me important information too.

I think drawing on things like Hitler Youth and the Milgram experiment for this is really just a way for people to justify their decisions, which they are making for their own benefit, as critical free thinking in the face of oppressive authority. I think that's self-aggrandising bollocks. I've got more respect for the posters who are just owning the fact that they're sick of it to the point of no longer giving a fuck.

There also seems to be an assumption that people who are sticking to the rules are madly reporting every gathering of 7 or two people indoors that they suspect. These are two different things and again, it doesn't help claims of critical thinking to conflate them.

Which is not to say I'm unsympathetic to what people are saying, as I've been stating. I absolutely understand all the points about terminally ill relatives, people with severe mental health problems as a result of this, doubly vaccinated people and so on. That's why I'm absolutely not judging them or reporting them (hardly know of any anyway).

But it's also why I'm sticking to the rules until 17 May (I'm not vaccinated yet and don't expect to be for a while). I think that if those of us fortunate enough not to have dangerously vulnerable loved ones and so on do stick to it, we will offset the effect of those who aren't so lucky and aren't sticking strictly to the law. No, of course nothing will magically change on that day, but rules have to be binary or there's no point having them; we might as well never lock down if we have no dates for when it lasts. I've waited at red lights when there was plainly nothing coming at 3am; yes, I know it's safe to go, but the rule is, stop at red. If it's "stop at red when you personally think you should", we're collectively fucked. Yes, it means I wait unnecessarily sometimes but that's the trade off for safety. I can hack it, and I can hack another few weeks of this, shit as it is. So I will, and hopefully that will help to offset those who can't.

Excellent post @DrSbaitso.

I am also heartened to see that, with almost 1000 votes, the percentage of YANBU has held firm at 33%. So one in three are still following the rules.

Oh and by the way I have at no point in this whole sorry saga of coronavirus invented or sought to convince others of the existence of excessively strict rules that go beyond the law.in fact, I remember being on a thread a long while back arguing that there was no reason why people should not drive 10 or 20 minutes to exercise somewhere more pleasant than an urban street. Nor have I ever reported anyone. It is something of a leap to suggest that a person who laments the fact that people are not following a very clear and easy-to-observe rule is a snitchy zealot who gets off on being subject to restrictive rules and does not want it to end.

OP posts:
KisstheTeapot14 · 30/04/2021 17:25

OP I'm with you tbh.

I think more mixing inside will mean a third wave coming quicker.

Just because its low now, doesn't mean it will stay low. Still plenty of Covid out there Van Tam said yesterday.

Covid isnt going away, we will have to keep vigilant for a good year yet - especially with huge case numbers in India etc. New variants bound to occur.

keeptheaspidistra · 30/04/2021 17:39

You put up a good fight OP but you've picked the wrong audience, mumsnetters seem to be covid deniers/downplayers on the whole. Personally, I've followed the rules pretty much from the start but I won't be getting myself in a flap about other people do. It's not worth it. Over a year into this and people have made up their own minds about the severity of covid and what is and isn't the right cause of action.

wildchild554 · 30/04/2021 17:45

At the end of the day, as far as I am concerned they are quite capable of making there own risk assessments. I am ECV will be spending an afternoon with my friend and one my sons will be staying over to give me a bit of a break and my oldest son a bit of a break from my youngest son. Was supposed to be during easter holidays but my friend was ill neither of us are vacinated but she has regular tests and is very careful so to me its worth it.

MonsteraMother · 30/04/2021 17:56

@Bluntness100

“Shame”...are you feeling ok? That’s a drastic reaction.
'Shame' is a way of saying 'I feel sorry for you' in this context the poster is using it in a slightly sarcastic way. It's a South African thing!

I interpret this as 'poor you, get a life'

duffeldaisy · 30/04/2021 17:57

We've still not seen a single family member outside our household (they live too far to visit to pop by), and the way people talk about not caring anymore, wanting to 'get on' with living and never mind the consequences - makes me really worry that we'll get yet another wave and need yet another lockdown and this will go on for years.

I don't understand what the 2/3 here don't get about viruses not changing their plans because we get depressed or bored or fed up. This just feels like an ongoing nightmare, when if we had had a proper lockdown in the first place we could be living almost normally with zero cases.

plumpuddisnice · 30/04/2021 18:00

Are people still making these threads. I mean really!

It's been a year of trauma. We've experienced nothing like this before and it has been utterly depressing and drained the life out of many. MH issues have increased massively. People are done with the restrictions and want their lives back.

Get a grip OP.

EducatingArti · 30/04/2021 18:04

twitter.com/SalfordCCG/status/1388157554165960706?s=19

So our local health authority tweeted this today. I really don't think they have any skin in the game except keeping Covid rates low. If too many people meet indoors too soon we do run the risk of a Covid uptick which could become serious. We really do need to wait.

August1980 · 30/04/2021 18:10

@HaveringWavering

They’d all be the first to complain if their employers asked them to come back to the office a millisecond before the government relaxes “work from home if possible”.
Very interesting this. Same with my lot. Lots of chatter about meet ups etc. Same lot asked to come in last week to pick up personal belongings (we moved offices) of 133. 7 turned up. The rest cited not being comfortable to return to work environment/fear of public transport and the majority- we haven’t been vaccinated yet.

I probably didn’t understand the roadmap; but I thought the phased plan was to allow for enough data to be had between the easing of lockdown. I could be wrong. I didn’t realise they just picked a random date! am such a sheep and follow whatever I am told Confused

Mumof5x · 30/04/2021 18:11

So you judge people saying over night with friends or family on the 16th but will he happy to do so yourself on the 17th. Does the clock turn midnight and suddenly magic the risk away? I assume grown up people that have been barely living for over a year are making judgment calls and deciding for themselves what is safe and what isn't. Surely this post is a wind up. If not I'm worried for you!