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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder what it is about “no overnight stays till 17 May” that is so hard to understand?

821 replies

HaveringWavering · 29/04/2021 16:22

So many colleagues and acquaintances merrily talking today about plans to go and stay with relatives for the bank holiday. Nobody has any shame. We’re waiting till the 17th. Does nobody care any more?

OP posts:
Justcallmebebes · 30/04/2021 12:07

Can honestly say I don't give a flying fuck.

I couldn't have put it better myself

Eilethya · 30/04/2021 12:08

@DrSbaitso

They administered electric shocks because "the person in authority told them to do so".

In 20 years time, I can guarantee the social and fear based reaction will be studied in universities up and down the country.

LadyCatStark · 30/04/2021 12:20

No I don’t give a shit. 6 people have been diagnosed with Covid in my entire borough in the last 7 days. No one has died in weeks and one person has been admitted to hospital. If they’d bloody well let me back out to work, I’d be skipping out of the door within a few minutes!

HelloMissus · 30/04/2021 12:25

LadyCat and that’s exactly why I think the government are relying on a certain amount of non compliance as a tester.

If those figures are the situation where a sizeable minority are not complying then that’s a good test.
If everyone complies until 17th then mass mixing, we have no way of knowing what’s working and will continue to work.

TheOneWithTheBigNose · 30/04/2021 12:25

We have had 0-2 cases for 7 weeks now.

Snoozer11 · 30/04/2021 12:30

@HaveringWavering

The law, which you go on so much about, makes absolutely no difference to how the virus is spread.

That is your opinion. My opinion is that the law would have been revoked if it did not make any difference.

No, it is not my opinion. It is a fact.

If the laws were revoked tomorrow, the coronavirus would still spread the same way. The virus is not sentient.

I haven't put my life on hold for over a year simply to follow the rules and abide by the law. I've done it because I don't want to be responsible for the spread of a virus that might kill someone I love.

If there were no laws introduced, I'd have likely behaved in exactly the same way. Because it was the right thing to do.

I really can't abide this attitude that if something is allowed, it's ok. It really highlights the stupidity of some people.

I've seen articles of accounts of people who lost parents and siblings because they met up over Christmas. They're blaming the government for allowing it, and at no point have they taken any responsibility for the sheer stupidity of meeting up indoors with the clinically vulnerable when the virus was at its peak.

When pubs reopened last year I saw comments online "so I can go to the pub but I can't hug my nan?!" Why the fuck would you think hugging your nan would be a good idea in the midst of a pandemic that is killing the elderly?!

Like you, these people were simply following the rules.

StillRailing · 30/04/2021 12:33

Snoozer I agree with all of that.
It's my version of the frustration shown by the op

Other people can be infuriating. 🤷

DrSbaitso · 30/04/2021 12:37

[quote Eilethya]@DrSbaitso

They administered electric shocks because "the person in authority told them to do so".

In 20 years time, I can guarantee the social and fear based reaction will be studied in universities up and down the country.

[/quote]
I'm familiar with the experiment, thank you, but actively inflicting pain upon another person under the guise of a "learning experiment" until they apparently die or lose consciousness - as the subjects believed they were doing - is not comparable with being asked to adhere to social restrictions during a pandemic.

Again, I'm sympathetic to what people are saying, but this is a ridiculous comparison that doesn't help the case or display "critical thinking".

DrSbaitso · 30/04/2021 12:51

It's also worth remembering that while most subjects in the Milgram experiment did continue to administer the "shocks", they also did it with clear and observable distress. Not really in keeping with the sanctimonious moralistic superiority that many posters are accusing others of having.

It is a very poor comparison.

Chessie678 · 30/04/2021 13:17

@DrSbaitso

The point about the electric shock experiment is presumably just that some people will follow rules however damaging they are because most people naturally defer to authority. There's a whole school of psychology which is less extreme than that experiment but says that most people are natural rule followers and that for those people following the rules is more important than what the rules are.

But I think how valid you find the comparison with this particular experiment depends on your experience of lockdown. I know plenty of people who would have preferred to have been electrocuted than go through another year like we have just had and that's not an exaggeration. I know someone who was previously completely mentally healthy who had a mental breakdown due to the isolation of living alone during the first lockdown, lost his business and is still having psychiatric treatment and unable to work. He isn't an unusual example. The lockdown rules basically wrecked his life for the foreseeable future and anyone who supports them is accepting that people like him will be collateral damage. Of course if your only experience of lockdown is that it has been a convenient excuse not to see your MIL your perspective will be different.

Personally, I don't think we should ever have made it illegal for people to see their families. I think that is a human rights abuse and a gross overreach of the criminal law. There are and have throughout history been plenty of bad laws and people who naturally follow rules have tended to defend them. I have seen close family throughout the last year and, in the unlikely event I was caught and fined, would refuse a fixed penalty and appeal right up to the highest court I could get to on a human rights based argument.

I don't personally agree that it is more moral to follow lockdown rules than not to either. It depends on your perspective but personally I think that my first moral responsibility is to my family and, in particular, my child and it is in my child's best interest to build relationships with close family. The risk posed to wider society by me seeing my sister or parents is minuscule. Added to that, most countries have not had our extreme no household mixing rules for such a long duration (in many countries these would be unconstitutional) and are in no worse a position re covid as a result.

TheKeatingFive · 30/04/2021 13:19

Personally, I don't think we should ever have made it illegal for people to see their families. I think that is a human rights abuse and a gross overreach of the criminal law.

100% agree with this

reesewithoutaspoon · 30/04/2021 13:27

So basically according to you OP we should follow this law to the letter just because its a law.

I cant get het up about people making their own risk assessments now case numbers are low. Those who don't give a shit have been merrily breaking the so called laws for the last 12 months,
The government allowed eat out to help out last august and meeting families at Christmas indoors. both of these contributed to subsequent spikes so they don't always get it right
You know its also still the law that you cant handle salmon in suspicious circumstances, its illegal to be drunk in a pub or beat a rug after 8am, or use a phone to pay at a drive through but I wont be worrying about those laws either.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 30/04/2021 13:29

I know medics and coppers who have been screwing affair partners the entire pandemic. Do I care? No.

LOL @ 'flouting' 'selfish' 'no shame' 'we all have to do our bit'. Bingo!

Nah, fuck that. I can't wait to fly off abroad. Going to have a blast, no masks, no restrictions, no social distancing.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 30/04/2021 13:29

Personally, I don't think we should ever have made it illegal for people to see their families. I think that is a human rights abuse and a gross overreach of the criminal law.

I agree 100%.

OutspokenNotThatFunny · 30/04/2021 13:30

People don't care anymore. The rules have been utterly ridiculous at times.
I can have a merry wander round a shop like primark for an hour passing loads of people. People quing close, touching things that others may touch.
But I supposedly can't have a friend round for a cuppa where my sofas are definitely over 2m apart.
Not a chance.
I don't care what others do and i don't care what others think about what I do. It's been a year now. Everyone's had enough.

Eilethya · 30/04/2021 13:31

[quote Chessie678]@DrSbaitso

The point about the electric shock experiment is presumably just that some people will follow rules however damaging they are because most people naturally defer to authority. There's a whole school of psychology which is less extreme than that experiment but says that most people are natural rule followers and that for those people following the rules is more important than what the rules are.

But I think how valid you find the comparison with this particular experiment depends on your experience of lockdown. I know plenty of people who would have preferred to have been electrocuted than go through another year like we have just had and that's not an exaggeration. I know someone who was previously completely mentally healthy who had a mental breakdown due to the isolation of living alone during the first lockdown, lost his business and is still having psychiatric treatment and unable to work. He isn't an unusual example. The lockdown rules basically wrecked his life for the foreseeable future and anyone who supports them is accepting that people like him will be collateral damage. Of course if your only experience of lockdown is that it has been a convenient excuse not to see your MIL your perspective will be different.

Personally, I don't think we should ever have made it illegal for people to see their families. I think that is a human rights abuse and a gross overreach of the criminal law. There are and have throughout history been plenty of bad laws and people who naturally follow rules have tended to defend them. I have seen close family throughout the last year and, in the unlikely event I was caught and fined, would refuse a fixed penalty and appeal right up to the highest court I could get to on a human rights based argument.

I don't personally agree that it is more moral to follow lockdown rules than not to either. It depends on your perspective but personally I think that my first moral responsibility is to my family and, in particular, my child and it is in my child's best interest to build relationships with close family. The risk posed to wider society by me seeing my sister or parents is minuscule. Added to that, most countries have not had our extreme no household mixing rules for such a long duration (in many countries these would be unconstitutional) and are in no worse a position re covid as a result.[/quote]
Yep, this is the point I'm trying to make.

In the past 12 months, I have seen countless threads of posters being torn a new arsehole for completely risk free outings such as go to the off-licence for a bar of chocolate because it's not "absolutely necessary".

I saw a thread not too long ago, a mum took her toddler (in a pram mind, so hardly spitting everywhere), to a garden centre for a walk around, to get out of the house for a bit. She didn't even buy anything .

Reading the replies, you'd have thought she had publicly executed 15 puppies, because again according to the indoctrinated it's not absolutely necessary.

I followed the rules last year, and after Xmas when it started getting hairy, but when infection levels are this low? No.

All because some blonde oaf and his band of merry men have decided that 17th May is some magical Covid cut-off point. Think about it.

TheOneWithTheBigNose · 30/04/2021 13:31

Personally, I don't think we should ever have made it illegal for people to see their families. I think that is a human rights abuse and a gross overreach of the criminal law

Yes. And the first lockdown, where people living alone couldn’t see other people for months on end, was inhumane.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 30/04/2021 13:33

Why the fuck would you think hugging your nan would be a good idea in the midst of a pandemic that is killing the elderly?!

Maybe the nan wanted to be cuddled by her family. Maybe to her being with and touching family was more important that the possibility of the virus which many including the elderly survive. Restricting human touch and contact is barbaric, it's used as punishment.

But it seems to give a lot of people the warm fuzzies.

Eilethya · 30/04/2021 13:34

The 17th May is that magical, stadiums and sporting events are allowed to go ahead.

So people have issues with families and friends having sleepovers today, when in 18 days bloody 1000+ people are allowed to congregate at an event Confused.

Covid isn't going anywhere. Weather we open on the 17th May, or delay it for another 12 months, this virus is here to stay. Time to start living again.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 30/04/2021 13:35

@TheOneWithTheBigNose

Personally, I don't think we should ever have made it illegal for people to see their families. I think that is a human rights abuse and a gross overreach of the criminal law

Yes. And the first lockdown, where people living alone couldn’t see other people for months on end, was inhumane.

I went and saw them, actively encouraged it as well. They were more than happy to throw that ridiculous rule out the window. Stupid AF.
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 30/04/2021 13:37

I don’t think people don’t understand the rules, never have done as it’s been clearly set out at all points. Some just think they don’t apply to them as their wants come first.

TheOneWithTheBigNose · 30/04/2021 13:38

I hugged my Nan throughout the pandemic. Because she wanted me to. And because she was well aware that at 90, there was a fairly strong chance she wouldn’t be around for hugs at the end of it.
Her husband died in feb last year (non Covid related) and it would have been cruel to leave her with no human touch when she wanted it so badly.

DrSbaitso · 30/04/2021 13:44

The point about the electric shock experiment is presumably just that some people will follow rules however damaging they are because most people naturally defer to authority.

I understand the point, thank you. And while I read your post in full, I strongly disagree that actively inflicting increasing pain on another human until possible death is comparable to adhering to social restrictions in a pandemic. It isn't just the authority that is driving people to do that; it's the evidence all around them, the knowledge of a pandemic, and the very obvious reasons for not mixing freely while it's ongoing. My NHS friends on the front line give me important information too.

I think drawing on things like Hitler Youth and the Milgram experiment for this is really just a way for people to justify their decisions, which they are making for their own benefit, as critical free thinking in the face of oppressive authority. I think that's self-aggrandising bollocks. I've got more respect for the posters who are just owning the fact that they're sick of it to the point of no longer giving a fuck.

There also seems to be an assumption that people who are sticking to the rules are madly reporting every gathering of 7 or two people indoors that they suspect. These are two different things and again, it doesn't help claims of critical thinking to conflate them.

Which is not to say I'm unsympathetic to what people are saying, as I've been stating. I absolutely understand all the points about terminally ill relatives, people with severe mental health problems as a result of this, doubly vaccinated people and so on. That's why I'm absolutely not judging them or reporting them (hardly know of any anyway).

But it's also why I'm sticking to the rules until 17 May (I'm not vaccinated yet and don't expect to be for a while). I think that if those of us fortunate enough not to have dangerously vulnerable loved ones and so on do stick to it, we will offset the effect of those who aren't so lucky and aren't sticking strictly to the law. No, of course nothing will magically change on that day, but rules have to be binary or there's no point having them; we might as well never lock down if we have no dates for when it lasts. I've waited at red lights when there was plainly nothing coming at 3am; yes, I know it's safe to go, but the rule is, stop at red. If it's "stop at red when you personally think you should", we're collectively fucked. Yes, it means I wait unnecessarily sometimes but that's the trade off for safety. I can hack it, and I can hack another few weeks of this, shit as it is. So I will, and hopefully that will help to offset those who can't.

YorkiePanda · 30/04/2021 13:44

@HaveringWavering thanks for considering my POV and experience. Many people have been so rigid they couldn’t even comprehend that there might be times when the need to attend to human distress was greater than the need to comply with rules/guidance.

before going on a completely non-compassionate-grounds-based overnight jolly

Who decides though what’s compassionate grounds and what’s needed for someone’s mental health and what isn’t? I think that’s a hard call to make and everyone’s standards for that are different.

motherloaded · 30/04/2021 13:46

@TheOneWithTheBigNose

Personally, I don't think we should ever have made it illegal for people to see their families. I think that is a human rights abuse and a gross overreach of the criminal law

Yes. And the first lockdown, where people living alone couldn’t see other people for months on end, was inhumane.

good grief, how do people manage when faced with genuine issues?

There were (legal and accepted) ways for people alone NOT to be completely alone for months anyway!

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