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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To only get socially married?

494 replies

Enormousnamechange · 22/04/2021 07:41

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

OP posts:
MrsArchchancellorRidcully · 22/04/2021 09:59

If you yourself are financially secure then if you legally marry your husband has a legal claim over your pensions.

I think if you want a 'commitment' party and are upfront about that then go for it!

ddl1 · 22/04/2021 10:00

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed

Many people get married without doing the dress or having the party; and you could have a 'commitment party' without calling it a wedding.

I don't think most people would wonder why you didn't get married, or even know whether you did or didn't. Marriage doesn't always equal commitment nowadays anyway. Many couples stay together for decades without being married; and many married couples get divorced.

But if it's that important to you, and as your partner doesn't adamantly object, I'd suggest that you just get married!

Enormousnamechange · 22/04/2021 10:01

I know there's no better way to rub people up the wrong way than this, but please try and bear in mind that this situation is all hypothetical at this stage, I haven't made any decisions and I'm just trying to figure out what the best options are for me and DP. I apologise if any of my comments have upset or annoyed people, and I fully support what ever choices other people would like to make. I am just feeling out what choice would be best for us.

I 100% accept that I WBU to have a fake wedding, and if I've made any decision at all it's that I won't be doing that! Thank you to everyone who helped me come to that conclusion.

As I mentioned earlier, it's massively thought-provoking and useful to have this discussion. I'm not trying to have a Disney sham wedding, or claim a level of respect for my relationship reserved for married couples, or anything along those lines. I love this man so much, I just don't want to gamble what I've worked so hard for when DP would be perfectly happy not to! I hope that makes sense.

OP posts:
Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 22/04/2021 10:02

I think this is quite offensive to your other half if I am honest. Like you want a husband but don't trust him not to run off with your cash. Just get a pre-nup if you are so worried.

Actually, yes I probably agree with this. Although I'm not sure that pre-nups are enforceable. It's fine to not want to get married (or maybe not see the point of it) but you seem to want everything other than the financial commitment.

Dishwashersaurous · 22/04/2021 10:04

the more I think about this the more I agree that this is actually offensive to your partner.

The only reason not to get married is because he might take your assets if you divorce.

Thats suggesting that you don't trust him to do the right thing if the marriage does end in the future.

JinglingHellsBells · 22/04/2021 10:05

If your DP has said he would not want anything from your financially if you married and divorced, why do you not believe him?

You still won't say how old you are. Hmm

For me, I'd want to know your ages, how long you have been together.
Do you jointly own a home and / or live together now?

Who can't have kids? what if the other one who is fertile changes their minds as the years go by.

These for me are important issues regardless of whether you marry or not.

Candyfloss99 · 22/04/2021 10:06

It sounds like you just don't really want to get married. The only reason stopping you is that he will get your money if you divorce when he doesn't even want it? Well then if you get divorced he can just say he wants nothing, if you don't trust him to do this then get a prenup. Problem solved.

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2021 10:10

but if we started calling ourselves husband and wife without a ceremony then it would be immediately obvious that we weren't actually married. So the ceremony is the means to an end and a way to avoid a big flag advertising the fact we weren't legally married

Meanwhile in the real world...

Dh and I went on holiday and got married abroad. We didn't invite any friends and family. I have not changed my name.

Should i therefore assume that everyone sees a big red flag and doesn't believe we are married?

I'm sorry but you have some pretty strange beliefs about marriage and what it does and doesn't do. And you are obsessed by the notion that you might divorce. It doesn't sound like a healthy level of trust tbh.

When we bought our first house we weren't married. Our solicitor made a point of saying that people who live together but don't marry have a much higher rate of splitting up. She also made the point that not being married but owning a house together could make splitting up more legally messy than if we divorced. And then when through various options of how you buy together as a couple who are unmarried because there are implications in case you split (its not as simple as you might think).

So who owns the house you live in? Do you have a mortgage? Do you have a mortgage together? If you do you are legally tied to each other even if you aren't married.

My assumption from your posts is possibly that you own property and he doesn't.

Then there is stuff like what happens if you or your partner dies and you aren't married.

Say you live together. One or both of you own the house.

If one of you are interstate then you have a problem. If you own a house together. If one of you doesn't have the means to hold on their half of the house, then they lose their home and they will be dealing with the death of their partner at the same time as having to move home. If one of you owns the home but not the other, you have to hope you die in the right order.

Your solution to this is to ensure that you are legally tied together with wills. You have to trust that the other party doesn't change their will behind the others back to exclude them. If you split you have the hassle of making sure you change the will quickly - just in case.

The legalities are important and if you love someone then surely the priority is that they are looked after when you are gone. Your focus is on making sure he doesn't screw me over whilst he's alive. Is that healthy? Have even thought of wills?

Equally if one of you is severely ill and lack capacity to make decisions, particularly in old age you could be in a situation where you knew your partners wishes but the family member who has the final say doesn't agree and refuses to speak to you. How is that going to feel. Or vice versa if you are the one dying. Is that what you'd want?

What im reading in your posts is that you think marriage is about protecting yourself financially which you don't need as you earn enough - but its all short term stuff about being young and nothing about a longer term things. You don't appear to be thinking of this relationship as one that is for life so I do wonder whether you feel it is.

You are so caught up in the thought of protecting yourself, you don't appear to be thinking about how you might WANT to also protect HIM in certain circumstances.

That doesn't bode well for the relationship tbh. There isnt trust there.

The whole thing smacks of a here and now mentality and a 'you will do for now' sense rather than it being a relationship where you want to spend the rest of your life together.

You aren't thinking of where and how you both still need legal protection or where legal issues may be a problem regardless of whether you are married or not.

And your point that you have to marry in front of other people otherwise they wont believe you are married is just plain bizarre and contrary to what you protest throughout the thread does suggest that you think marriage is about a public ceremony and making a song and dance about it rather than a commitment to each other.

CaraherEIL · 22/04/2021 10:10

I think you could do a beautiful commitment ceremony and have a fantastic dress and plan it all with as much excitement as anyone else. I think you can say you are committed to each other and you can exchange rings and call each other husband and wife. I think design your invite with care so you have been clear about what you are doing. I think calling it a Celebration rather than a wedding. Anyone who is mealy mouthed about it isn’t worth an invite and those who love you will be delighted to get together and have a lovely day. I have been to lots of whirly twirly very unconventional celebrations of love and life, people are there to celebrate because they love you.Or you could even be really obvious on the invite and say ‘You are cordially invited to our Non wedding Blah and blah invite you to join them in this date for a celebration of love and happiness.

IbrahimaRedTwo · 22/04/2021 10:11

I just don't want to gamble what I've worked so hard for when DP would be perfectly happy not to! I hope that makes sense

No, it doesn't really.

Hadalifeonce · 22/04/2021 10:12

If you don't want to get married, don't. You can name anyone next of kin, normally you are asked when you register with a GP, and everytime you are asked for next if kin, you can state each other. A will is essential, but won't get around inheritance
tax. You can call him you partner, your husband, your toyboy, anything you like.
If it's a party you want, have one.

Babyboomtastic · 22/04/2021 10:12

It's hugely offensive to him, and if this was the other way round, we'd be telling the woman to run for the hills.

You are only looking at your protection, not his.

It's like, you want a fabulous day all about you, with a pretty dress, but you don't love him or trust him enough that he won't run of with your money.

Bonheurdupasse · 22/04/2021 10:12

OP

Completely agree with this:
“Finally - the "he's just a boyfriend" line is exactly why I'd want to do get socially married. He's not just my boyfriend, he's my life partner, best friend etc. I'd hate to be in my 50s and 60s and have people still consider him "just a boyfriend". Feel quite emotional about that.*

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 22/04/2021 10:13

@YellowTwinklyStar

It sounds like you want a party all about yourselves tbh. Just have a birthday party?
Why else would someone give a party? There's nothing wrong with that.

Pagan handfasting ceremonies are now more popular. They are not legally binding (and are not permitted in civil ceremonies because of their religious, spiritual content). It's unlikely that a pagan would ever see a handfasting ceremony as a 'sham' wedding.

If you want to call yourself a wife then clearly a non-binding ceremony won't do much. As far as the piece of paper is concerned, I'm also an independent woman with a career and my own name, so like you I didn't need financial protection. What did concern me was that, through the death of a close loved one, I was aware of how difficult it would be to order our affairs legally were one of us to become incapacitated or died. Our marriage gives me and DH that legal capability. In your position I'd see a solicitor and look to exploring other legal means of doing so.

You say your DP would marry for you, should this be important to you. It does sound as though it is. Is this an option? FWIW it was my DH who wanted marriage, I wasn't bothered. But I was perfectly willing to do it for him; had I not been, it might have raised other questions about exactly why not.

Be happy, whatever you decide!

TheLastLotus · 22/04/2021 10:15

Having a social wedding is a good idea as long as everyone aware - HOWEVER if the bit you’re worried about is what other people think , you’re probably going to be judged.

I would understand it more if you wanted the big party without the commitment. But you want the commitment to be acknowledged without actually having said commitment.

To me the reasons etc don’t matter - the reason marriage is a big deal is because you’re tied together. No matter what you say not being married is not the same level of commitment because it’s easier to split. Thats a fact. Not judgement. Fact.

So you either have a big party/commitment ceremony or just get married. Either is fine and it’s your own life

But you can’t go around calling him your husband if you’re not married because he isn’t. And for all legal intents and purposes he isn’t. This will become very very obvious if god forbid one of you becomes very sick/passes early. Or you need to migrate /claim spousal benefits for anything.

Enormousnamechange · 22/04/2021 10:16

@BlanketyBlanky
Well... When the thought entered my head and then immediately fell out of my mouth as we were talking about it, that's pretty much how it came out! He seemed bemused but into the idea at the time. We have a "the proposal should be a surprise but the engagement shouldn't" way of thinking about it, so if he or I were to ask one day we wouldn't have to clarify in the moment.

Whether it's offensive to DP. I hadn't ever thought about it that way, as I don't think of it is as a thing he would do, more as a thing one could do. I don't ever think he would - but things can get so hostile and ugly in a divorce. You just don't know. He's always said he's not interested in my financial assets, always, but the difference in our situations is fairly significant (I'm not wealthy just normal, but he just carries a significant amount of debt) and if things were hostile he could be entitled to assets I've worked very hard to put together. I'll talk to him about it. Ultimately he gets to decide if he's offended, but I completely understand why he would feel that way if he did.

OP posts:
Doodledoop · 22/04/2021 10:21

I know someone who sort of did this. She changed her name so they are 'The Smiths' and refers to her husband. But they aren't actually married. I only found out recently and it's a bit mind bending as they seem equally as married as me - did legal bit, didn’t change name. So i completely agree there is a social how you present marriage as well as legal contract.

nettie434 · 22/04/2021 10:21

@Enormousnamechange

Thanks again for all the points raised.

From those arguing that I'm missing out on legal protection here - what legal protection is that (assuming that our financial imbalance stays at it is and we both remain in good health)? At the moment it is my understanding that I am sharing and therefore risk losing my assets, but not gaining anything legally/financially other than NOK/his pension/marriage tax breaks? Would love more information on this as I would be open to changing my mind if this the case.

What I was trying to say was that things might not remain the same. That's why legal protection offers something - especially being the one having the final say in each other's health treatment should you not be able to consent for yourself.

At the moment, my understanding is the same as yours - you lose out on the marriage allowance and the other person's state pension. I am less sure about occupational pensions because there was a case in Northern Ireland of a couple who weren't married and she got his occupational pension even though he hadn't completed a statement that he wanted her to have it.

trevthecat · 22/04/2021 10:23

But you won't be husband and wife! It's like a child's make believe. Someone I know changed their name and then told people they were married and that it was the same. It's not the same. You are devaluing marriage

Babyboomtastic · 22/04/2021 10:24

Honestly, can you imagine it ..

I've been dating a man for a few years now, we live together. He's much wealthier than me, we live in his house, and he earns far more than me.

He'd love be to be his wife, and got all his family and friends to think we are married, but he's told me that he just wants to pretend we are married, because he is worried that if we marry and divorce he'll lose his money.

He's of the view he's worked hard for his money, and it's not in his advantage to get married. We aren't planning on having children.

alliejay81 · 22/04/2021 10:25

I think it's a lovely idea. I don't go to someone's wedding to see them sign a contract, I go to celebrate their love and enjoy a party. Just like I don't want to watch someone exchange property contracts but I do go to the house-warming party.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 22/04/2021 10:25

@trevthecat

But you won't be husband and wife! It's like a child's make believe. Someone I know changed their name and then told people they were married and that it was the same. It's not the same. You are devaluing marriage
Yup
WalkingDownTheStreet · 22/04/2021 10:26

There's a guy who is a wedding celebrant (also trains people to become celebrants). He seems really good. He appears to do all sorts of different weddings. For example one couple got married in Stonehenge. I think they were Pagans or something. If you're interested, let me know and I'll send you his email address. He would be good to bounce ideas off as he has done this work for a long time.

Babyboomtastic · 22/04/2021 10:27

He'd love be to be his wife, and got

Means = he'd love me to be his wife and for all his family and friends to think we are married"

5zeds · 22/04/2021 10:29

I love this man so much, I just don't want to gamble what I've worked so hard for when DP would be perfectly happy not to! I hope that makes sense. yes of course it does. You want to be a couple. That’s not the same as being married. If you were married your money and his debt would be merged into one “us”. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting that but it’s not having a husband or wife.

I think what you’re looking for is recognition you are in a long term relationship.